business returns under DSRs

soolin

Ebay always tell us, and we repeat it here that business sellers must accept returns on all items under the DSRs. Yet I've just found this in the ebay pages whilst looking for something else:
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/business.html#returns

2) Where do the Distance Selling Regulations apply?

The Distance Selling Regulations generally apply to sales to non-business buyers made by sellers acting in the course of a business, which have been made at a distance. In other words, where there is no face-to-face contact between the seller and the buyer before the contract is made. The Distance Selling Regulations usually cover sales made over the internet, including:

• <LI class=unorderedList>Buy It Now listings on eBay.co.uk
  
• Second Chance Offers on eBay.co.uk
  

The UK Distance Selling Regulations do not apply to eBay auction format listings on eBay.co.uk, and do not apply to all types of items.

That seems to suggest that business sellers on ebay can refuse returns on auctions, I know in practical terms none of us would probably refuse a return, but am I reading that correctly?

ootie

I think you are reading it correctly.

I sell the majority of my things by auction, very rarely use BIN. I offer returns purely for customer service reasons.

Have to say, I also expect returns if I'm buying too.

I think I've had maybe one item returned in around 10 years, and never had to return anything myself, but I like the security blanket of the option being there.

cyberbob

Yes that's right DSRs don't apply to auctions. Though it's rather academic with Paypal.

macfly

The DSR's are to cover impulse purchases. An auction isn't an"instant" purchase. The normal sale of goods apply of course.

Crowqueen

cyberbob wrote: »

Yes that's right DSRs don't apply to auctions. Though it's rather academic with Paypal.

I don't think Paypal offer a 100% guarantee or enforce the DSRs. The returns are only the change-of-mind returns allowed under the DSRs - the SOGA still applies for faulty or mis-described items. Also business sellers I believe have to offer a return policy as part of eBay's own rules, IIRC, regardless of whether the transaction is covered by the DSRs.

I think I agree with Mac - I'm surprised Soo hadn't realised auctions weren't covered.

cyberbob

Crowqueen wrote: »

I don't think Paypal offer a 100% guarantee or enforce the DSRs. The returns are only the change-of-mind returns allowed under the DSRs - the SOGA still applies for faulty or mis-described items. Also business sellers I believe have to offer a return policy as part of eBay's own rules, IIRC, regardless of whether the transaction is covered by the DSRs.

Sorry I wasn't clear the point I was trying to make is that all a buyer needs to do is claim a SNAD (even if not true) and 99% of the time they will be refunded on return. Now it's even sillier for sellers to fight SNADs as sellers now lose paypal fees on the refund if they lose.

As always SOGA and DSRs are all and well but enforcing them is another matter.

Crowqueen

Some sellers choose to contest SNADs they know full well are merely change-of-mind returns and sometimes they even win, so that isn't a surefire way of getting a refund under the DSRs.

But I see 100% what you mean: it may make a difference whether a seller is business or private.

lindseykim13

I knew this but it makes no difference if you refuse a return the buyer just opens a dispute anyway. Now that the disputes count against your account it isn't worth fighting a change of mind return even if you did win in a rare case, it still gets counted does it not?
I tried to fight one once a long time ago when i first started out business selling, the buyer had used the item-they said they didn't like it and wanted to return. I refused under the grounds it had been used and now unsaleable, they then opened a dispute claiming snad and i ended up refunding anyway. If i'd just refunded i could have avoided annoying the buyer but hey we learn from are mistakes even though i felt hard done by!

Mrs_justjohn

DSR's do not cover auctions nor do they cover Buy it Nows where the buyer is a business.

RFW

It is solely if the return is due to 'change of mind' that the dsrs do not apply to auctions. Auctions generally are a bit of a legal grey area on the internet as most of the laws for auctions cover the buyer being able to physically see the item. Disputes very rarely make it to court so its likely to remain a grey area, where companies such as Paypal end up with the final word as to who gets the refund if pushed.

martindow

It is odd that second chance offers are covered as the price there has been determined by bidding in an auction.