Debit Card Fraud- will I get a refund LTSB

tr105

I had my whole purse stolen two weeks ago sometime between the hours of 1am and 10am the next morning. I reported the theft as soon as I realised at 10am the next morning.

It has now materialised that between 1.30am and 1.45am, 5 separate transactions totalling £1000 were made in the same dodgy off licence in London. A further cash withdrawal of £300 was also made within this time frame. My bank allowed all of these transactions to go through, despite this being unusual compared to my usual spending patterns. All of these transactions were apparently made using my PIN number.

Now, I have a telephone interview with my bank, Lloyds TSB next week. From reading other posts, it seems that the bank may argue that because these transactions were made using my PIN number, it is my fault because somehow I have been negligent with my PIN number. I do not have the PIN written down, I have had it for 15 years! I have no idea how this criminal got my purse, or found out my PIN number.

Any advice from anyone who has similar experiences would be appreciated! I have a fear I may never see this money again. I have reported to the Police etc. I have Sentinel protection too, but if I claim on this, I suspect they might pursue the same line of argument!:mad:

slummymummyof3

About 2 years ago, husband had his card cloned in the States in the November and they used it in a casino over the Christmas period (assuming that people would be less inclined to check their online banking maybe??) LTSB said that they had used the pin rather than signing and therefore he must carried out the transaction etc etc.

Took 20 mins for them to accept the transactions weren't actually his, and then he was accused of telling someone his pin as how could someone else possibly know these details without him providing them?? Managed to prove his innocence as there were other transactions showing in the pipeline from said casino which he couldn't have possibly carried out as he was in the UK and couldn't have flown back that quickly. They sent out claims forms and he just had to sign to say he hadn't made the transactions or authorised anyone else to do so. Took about 4 weeks for the money to be refunded.

More recently his Tesco credit card had fraudulent transactions for about £700 by someone in Italy - quite how somene in Italy ended up with his card details, we don't know. Tesco refunded straightaway and stopped the card.

tr105

Thanks for this. I suspect I will have to go about proving it wasn't me.... how I will do this I don't know. I am trying to obtain CCTV footage at the moment from the Off Licence where the crime was committed. Will let you know how I get on!

Fiddlestick

tr105 wrote: »

Thanks for this. I suspect I will have to go about proving it wasn't me.

It's the other way round - it's for the bank to prove that you were negligent, not for you to prove your innocence!

suburbanwifey

tr105 wrote: »

I had my whole purse stolen two weeks ago sometime between the hours of 1am and 10am the next morning. I reported the theft as soon as I realised at 10am the next morning.

It has now materialised that between 1.30am and 1.45am, 5 separate transactions totalling £1000 were made in the same dodgy off licence in London. A further cash withdrawal of £300 was also made within this time frame. My bank allowed all of these transactions to go through, despite this being unusual compared to my usual spending patterns. All of these transactions were apparently made using my PIN number.

Now, I have a telephone interview with my bank, Lloyds TSB next week. From reading other posts, it seems that the bank may argue that because these transactions were made using my PIN number, it is my fault because somehow I have been negligent with my PIN number. I do not have the PIN written down, I have had it for 15 years! I have no idea how this criminal got my purse, or found out my PIN number.

Any advice from anyone who has similar experiences would be appreciated! I have a fear I may never see this money again. I have reported to the Police etc. I have Sentinel protection too, but if I claim on this, I suspect they might pursue the same line of argument!:mad:

To be honest, if I was the bank, I'd think it was a bit dodgy...purse stolen, then fraudulent transactions. They are going to think you had your PIN written down somewhere in your purse! If someone had your PIN by criminal means, how did spending by using the PIN coincide with the exact timing of your purse being stolen. Surely, if some thief out there had your PIN, fraudulent transactions would have occurred independently of your purse being stolen?

Not saying you are being dishonest, just saying how it will look to Lloyds TSB credit card fraud dept.

I have had a bank account and a credit card with Lloyds TSB for 8 years now..in that time I have had 2 fraudulent transactions on my platinum credit card...a card I only ever use over the internet. The amounts were small (one was £11.47) and both frauds were done on gambling sites. When I called them and told them they were frauds, they were fabulous - a quick look at my account showed I never used gambling sites and all my honesty was not disputed at all. Most frauds are small amounts at first to see if they are 'noticed' I think....

They sent me a form, I signed it, the money was credited back to my account immediately. I also requested they CLOSE the card, giving me new card numbers, rendering the old one they did use useless. I have spent many thousands upon thousands on the internet over the last 12 years...only ever had those two small frauds, both on my LLoyds TSB card! but I do use that online more than others I have....I like how speedily they deal with rubbish situations like this. They do with me anyhow

I think you many have a hard time proving your case, to me it doesn't look good, sorry to have to tell you that and once again, I confirm I am not saying you are being dishonest.

suburbanwifey

Fiddlestick wrote: »

It's the other way round - it's for the bank to prove that you were negligent, not for you to prove your innocence!

Wrong, it is for the customer to prove they did not authorize fraudulent transactions or that they did not allow someone else to use their PIN.

suburbanwifey

tr105 wrote: »

It has now materialised that between 1.30am and 1.45am, 5 separate transactions totalling £1000 were made in the same dodgy off licence in London.

Can I ask on what basis you state the Off-License is dodgy? Do you think in some way the Off-License is involved? Did you use your card and use with a PIN machine in there? If so, you may have a point, but if not, I see no involvement with an Off-License, who will, incidentally, be the losers if it does transpire that fraud occurred on your account - LLoyds TSB will take the money back from that shop, they are ultimately the losers in the fraud as you will be refunded.

brokeinyorkshire

How do you suggest the fraudsters knew your PIN???

The only way is if you used an ATM before hand and they ' shoulder surfed ' you!

It will probably be an automatic decline although you will have the right to appeal.

suburbanwifey

brokeinyorkshire wrote: »

How do you suggest the fraudsters knew your PIN???

The only way is if you used an ATM before hand and they ' shoulder surfed ' you!

It will probably be an automatic decline although you will have the right to appeal.

I agree! Although I am not saying she is being dishonest, I think she will be declined and personally, think that will be the right decision.

Credit Card companies are usually fabulous when it comes to customers suffering fraud, that is if that is what they think has happened :cool:

The fact they want a telephone interview speaks volumes....software that detects nervousness, lies etc may be involved...she'll have to keep her wits about her if there is any deception, these people who detect fraud are very smart...

suburbanwifey

1) How did you lose your purse...were you in a pub and your bag was open on your shoulder, someone puts hand in and takes it out?

2) What reason were you in your bag looking for your purse that morning at 10am? I only go to get my purse when I am out shopping and need to pay for something or sat the the computer and I am about to make a purchase, for which I need my card...so were you buying anything on line that morning? (and have proof I take it from an email receipt) or were you out shopping and suddenly reached for a purse that was not there etc...

All these questions are what may be asked of you....as the answers come forth, it will reflect how they see the situation etc...

You may just be better taking the hit on the money if you cannot give adequate answers....you don't want them thinking you are a fraudster do you?

Just trying to help by the way, your story has intrigued me somewhat...

suburbanwifey

Another thing that's bothering me about this situation is this:

5 separate transactions totalling £1000 were made in the same dodgy off licence in London.

5 separate transaction in the same shop over a 15 minute period? that is very odd that the person on the till did not query so many transactions in a 15 minute period for such a huge amount? a thousand pounds is a lot to spend in an off-license...Mmmm - in only 15 minutes!

Did the shop have CCTV watching the till? even my small local store has cameras over the till area watching for staff thefts etc...I'm sure an off-license in London would have CCTV...if their evidence is called during the investigation of this fraud, it will show who was stood there at the time of the transactions, making them...if that was not you (as you state it wasn't) then you will have proof of at least something....