Towards car park management without PPC's?

anewman

Ok so it has been suggested in the past car parks could simply install barriers. However, an obvious criticism is once people are past the barrier they can park in disabled bays, across 2 bays, and in parent and child when they are not disabled or with any children, and in doing so may prevent users who need those spaces from using them.

How about if the barriers could be used to somehow punish those who parked errantly instead of trying to make money out of them with a PPC invoice (toilet paper). This could include, for example, making someone wait at the barrier to leave the car park - if they are made to wait, even if it's for two minutes, then next time they may park with more consideration. The length of time could be proportionate to the "crime" and could be longer the next time the same car "offends". One of the reasons people park in disabled bays instead of a normal one is to save time, if people can be made to realise doing so does not save time then you almost instantly wipe out such abuse of spaces. Another possibility is to prevent repeat offenders from actually entering the car park in the first place, effectively banning them. This could easily be achieved by using Automatic Number Plate Recognition technology and having a screen/display with which to feedback messages to the driver.

Some people might moan on about how this affects human rights, access to the public highway and other such laws - but in effect it's no different to someone trying to exit a multi-storey without having paid. Many supermarkets already use ANPR to record the number plates of visitors, so I suspect there are no data protection issues either. And there are clearly problems here regarding judging whether someone is infact disabled, someone arriving without kids in order to pick up kids, and other such issues. But these issues still exist with the use of PPC's to enforce rules.

Another possibility is some sort of social compliance model, like the speed signs which display how fast you're going. Signs could display the number of "offences" as someone enters a car park, and a sad face for repeat offenders and a happy face for those with a clean record. Doesn't stop people parking in the wrong bays and so on, but may cause some embarrassment. Although I can envisage some people would quickly see the opportunity to have a competition to get the highest score, lol. This concept is probably best used in conjunction with some sort of 3 strikes your banned rule, where if you're on two the sign warns you're on your last warning before being banned.

Either you want to protect your car park from people parking inconsiderately, or you want to make money by allowing people to park inconsiderately and then invoicing them. You cannot have both happen at once.

The only downside to this idea is the cost of implementation, which I suspect would be a few thousand with the cost of electric and maintenance on top. With a PPC you stick up some £20 signs and design them so people can hardly read them, pay someone minimum wage to patrol the car park, and you rake in wads of cash - but sadly those days will be over once people realise you don't have to pay. The BPA wants regulation involving the Government, but as has been pointed out, regulation did not work for clamping.

peter_the_piper

Maybe something like these might help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Cw0QJU8ro&p=28E8CE22ED422CB8&playnext=1&index=9

AlexisV

You're under the impression these companies exist to manage car parks, as opposed to making as much money as possible!

At the end of the day, the horrors of car park 'abuse' is a fallacy perpetuated by private companies who try to brainwash clients into letting them onto their land to try and scam the public.

The vast majority of people park correctly and don't 'abuse' disabled or parent bays. Car parks left to their own devices function perfectly normally, as demonstrated on the continent.

kwaks

You couldn't hold them at the barriers as this will delay people trying to exit behind them.

As for the parking across 2 bays etc, my solution would be simple. Everyone entering the car park is given a numbered bay. This allows the parking company to fill the car park more evenly, with empty spaces between cars when it permits. Those with disabilities would be allocated spaces closer to the doors etc by displaying the badge as they enter. Parent and child spaces would be obsolete, as I would ensure all the spaces were big enough to allow car doors to be opened fully.

If you abuse the system by parking in a diffent bay then your registration is noted. On exit a warning notice is given, next visit you are allocated a space as far from the entrance/exit as possible, abuse the process again and you will be banned for a period of time (twice the frequency of your average visit).

backfoot

I think it's a really good thing to step back and have a think about this.

Regrettably I don't think the ideas mentioned by the OP are practicable or workable without very expensive technology or surveillence.

By chance we took a day trip today to Warwick. We stopped initially at a restaurant/bar place just off the M40. It has a shared car park with a hotel.It was barriered for entry and exit with a reasonable tariff which was totally refundable against a purchase in the bar.A free car park in a busy location becomes an attraction and the retailer got our business. Quid pro quo.

We then moved into the town centre.Pretty busy bustling place, but plenty of council car parks and we parked near to the centre for £2.00 for 3 hours which I thought was reasonable.We did some shopping and the local retailers got some of our cash.Everyone content.

At no stage,did it enter our minds to hope to pull a fast one.I don't think people actually do.Maybe there are few idiots around who try but in both situations today it just is nonsensical to contemplate.

As we see on the Forum, the disgust and anomosity towards PPC's is solely due their mismanagement of a largely non existent problem.They make the problem by being involved in detection of minor errors and infringements. Their subsequent handling of appeals is nothing short of distasteful, showing that they are so desperate to bring in revenue,they will stop at nothing.It shows the true nature of what they stand for.i.e. themselves.

The illustration of our excitable train guy shows it in spades.He doesn't see his car parks as an extention of the transport offerring.He sees it totally separately, as a revenue grabbing opportunity.Not only in respect of the fees collected but in the so called policing.The train cases we see here are varied but they invariably have a common thing of someone's one off minor error.

So my conclusion is to move forward on the following fronts:

Try to discourage retailers from joining in this culture of charging for their privilege of you shopping with them.
Spread the word hard and wide that PPC invoices continue to have no validity, thus driving their 'scam businesses' to the wall. (We are winning):T
Encourage a culture of doing the right things in car parks.re disabled bays,crossing lines etc. Do it via education and information rather than aggression, annoyance and invoices.

A Utopia maybe, but didn't it largely exist before PPC's came along.:D

anewman

AlexisV wrote: »

At the end of the day, the horrors of car park 'abuse' is a fallacy perpetuated by private companies who try to brainwash clients into letting them onto their land to try and scam the public.

The vast majority of people park correctly and don't 'abuse' disabled or parent bays. Car parks left to their own devices function perfectly normally, as demonstrated on the continent.

I think your right. The only places where some form of control is definitely needed is where you have say a supermarket close to a city centre, to stop people parking in the supermarket for free and walking off into the city centre to work all day. BUT only if this filled up all the spaces preventing customers getting any access. And then again, all you really need to have is a pay and refund on shopping sort of arrangement, so only customers park for free. And rather than have PPC's patrolling to look for people who did not buy a ticket, just use barriers.

kwaks

Pay and refund doesn't work with supermarkets, people simple buy a single item to validate their parking.

My town centre has 2 large 24 hr supermarkets, part of the requirements for them being built (they are attached to the town centre shopping complex at either end) was that they provide free parking for themselves and the shopping centre. They benefit from the "Next" customer popping in after buying her items from the sale and needing a chocolate eclair to see her through x factor, so the pay off for the passing trade is the car park.

Supermarkets in town centres get a large amount of impulse buys, customers not doing large shops, just the bits and pieces, the trade off is free use to everyone for the car parking spaces. Do you think a supermarket employing a PPC was granted planning permission to use the car park as a commercial operation? Of course not.

trisontana

Tesco actually boast about the profits they make from their car-parks because (to improve their image) they donate these profits to charity. This proves that they are not just claiming for the actual material loss they have suffered, by are making money from it.

taffy056

There is no one solution fits all, there are number of options for car parking, it depends on each car park, where it is situated, how many retailers are there and the actual design of the car parking facilities, and there lies a lot of problems, the bays are to small, the disabled bays and child bays are often in the wrong place, like next to cashpoint machines or right next to each other, I mean surely an able bodied parent can park a little further from the front door?

The PPCs always cause problems, they are there to make money and don't give a monkey's about control, they restrict and extort, they give bad reputations to retailers and use illegal tactics to scare people into paying them!

10 years ago there was no problems with parking for the most part, 5 years ago there was huge problems with parking, today these problems have increased ten fold, the reason is because of these scammers, they are a blight on shopping and should be outlawed and let the retailers manage their obligations, they make enough money to employ people to help parker's use the facilities properly.

Coblcris

A cogent and very valid point above re' the planning permission requirements.

One can check these locations that charge against the planing permission.

I add that one can also check that the appropriate business rates are being paid for car parks which do charge. I am sure that many local authorities would relish the extra income in these times.

AlexisV

Tesco actually boast about the profits they make from their car-parks because (to improve their image) they donate these profits to charity. This proves that they are not just claiming for the actual material loss they have suffered, by are making money from it.

ie. Tesco get 5% of each ticket and the rest is relabelled 'operating costs' and goes in the PPC's back pocket.