Student tuition fees on the rise

Lokolo

savvystudent wrote: »

Ok, firstly it's basic economics - law of supply and demand. Then just read a few of the comments on the petition from the last week alone:
www. savethestudent.org/petition-against-uncapped-tuition-fees (sorry still can't post links).

And that's a bit of a jump.. I'm against raising fees and putting the full burden on young people who want to learn and progress in their careers.

I don't suppose you realise just how much an educated workforce is worth to our economy (and thus taxpayers), especially as we have 1. an ageing population and 2. a predominately knowledge-based economy. I definitely think taxpayers should support students. Why not? Before tuition fees came in under Labour taxpayers paid 100% of a student's degree. Today 'we' spend billions on killing innocent people in the Middle East.

I'm actually shocked as to how this thread has been received. Why do people find it so necessary to place judgement and spark arguments on these online forums? Why the 'ganging up' on students? Do you support the proposed increase in fees? From the looks of it you're a student yourself.

Simple economics. Labour spent more than they earned. Look where that got us.

I am a student, and I support tuition fee rises. There are a lot of people I know who should not be at university but they go because "they should". I go to university because I have a goal, and to do that, I need a degree.

(if loans and grants were not still available, then yes, I would be fully against the rise. But the oppurtunity is still there; rich or poor)

And yes Briton is a knowledge based, but it doesn't mean we don't need manual workers. Plumbers, lorry drivers -> all these jobs going to graduates because EVERYONE has a degree because its so cheap? Its pointless! You don't need a degree in every area, and that's what it's all about.

You are saying everyone is entitled to a degree. This is wrong. Not everyone is entitled. If this was the case, I'd never get my asda shopping done, I'd never be able to go and buy clothes, receptionists wouldn't exist etc.

This forum allows you to express your opinion. Just as you have done. It's not ganging up. Just not everyone agrees with you.

savvystudent

Upping the cost is not solving the problem, it just makes it harder for those who aren't from a privileged background or are simply afraid of massive debts! Those from well-off backgrounds probably won't think twice about the cost and you'll still have those who you say go just because they feel "they should". Everyone should be entitled to a degree, who is anyone to say to someone that they can't have an education because "we need you working on the checkouts in Asda"! Elitist and ridiculous.

Lokolo

savvystudent wrote: »

Upping the cost is not solving the problem, it just makes it harder for those who aren't from a privileged background or are simply afraid of massive debts! Those from well-off backgrounds probably won't think twice about the cost and you'll still have those who you say go just because they feel "they should". Everyone should be entitled to a degree, who is anyone to say to someone that they can't have an education because "we need you working on the checkouts in Asda"! Elitist and ridiculous.

So in your case, where education is completely free. Who the hell works in my local Asda?

It DOESN'T work.

Stop being rediculous. Life isn't fair. Some people have to do the "crappy" jobs. Not everyone is intelligent enough to have a degree.

It's not how life works.

Those that are intelligent enough, will research university.

The amount of people that come on here, not realising that student loans have an interest rate. These are the people that are going "because it's cool". This is when university is wrong.

Oldernotwiser

savvystudent wrote: »

Everyone should be entitled to a degree,

And what happens when you dumb down the system enough that this takes place? People will need postgraduate degrees to show that they are more competent than everyone else.

If we had a more manageable number of people studying at degree level then we might have a chance of supporting them adequately; the more undergraduates there are, the less support they will get.

atypical

Lokolo wrote: »

Education for most is a right, but it shouldn't be a right upto degree level. Otherwise everyone will have a degree, and then how do you determine who gets what jobs? Who does the lower paid jobs, such as bin disposal? Who works in McDonalds? etc.etc.

Why shouldn't it be up to degree level? It seems arbitrary for the marker to be placed at higher education. If the argument is made that education is a right only to meet minimum standards, you can possibly say that the limit should be set at GCSEs. But it isn't, A-levels and their equivalents are still funded.

Lokolo, what exactly are you saying? That the people who take menial jobs should be the people who are put off by higher fees? Or that the people who take menial jobs should be the people who aren't intelligent enough to obtain a degree?

I suspect it's the latter. But increasing fees doesn't filter out the people who aren't intelligent enough to obtain degrees. What it is more likely to do is filter out those who are scared at seeing numbers higher than the income their family lives on. We probably all agree that higher education needs reforming, but I'm slightly scared that so many here see raising fees as a panacea.

savvystudent

Entitled doesn't mean forced. I haven't advocated free higher education. Some people prefer vocational jobs. Sorry just getting a bit tired of labouring over wrong interpretations and petty arguments.

Lokolo

atypical wrote: »

Why shouldn't it be up to degree level? It seems arbitrary for the marker to be placed at higher education. If the argument is made that education is a right only to meet minimum standards, you can possibly say that the limit should be set at GCSEs. But it isn't, A-levels and their equivalents are still funded.

But the minimum education is now A levels and equivalent isn't it? Minimum school leaving age being 18 for starters now.

By all means, in a perfect world, everyone would have degrees. But then the economy goes to plot when graduates go into work at Asda, lorry drivers etc. which don't pay as much, so the amount of tax the government gets back isn't nearly enough to cover the costs of letting everyone go to university.

[edit]

And yes the latter. But I don't believe it will. Those that are intelligent enough, will look into the funding, will work out how to afford it. And those from low income backgrounds, if intelligent enough, will look at the grants available.

Lokolo

savvystudent wrote: »

Entitled doesn't mean forced. I haven't advocated free higher education. Some people prefer vocational jobs. Sorry just getting a bit tired of labouring over wrong interpretations and petty arguments.

Exactly. So how is it fair that those who haven't gone to university have to pay for those that do?

Example, a degree costs £10k/year.
Student pays £3.5k
Rest comes from taxpayer.

So in a real life situation, my brother, who hasn't and most probably never will, is paying taxes on his job, to help support me and others at university. How on earth is this fair?

The only way to stop this, is to stop the government topping up the rest. Very similar to USA style education.

savvystudent

Lokolo wrote: »

The interest is the rate of inflation so the money you borrow will be the same value as you pay back.

Lokolo wrote: »

The amount of people that come on here, not realising that student loans have an interest rate. These are the people that are going "because it's cool". This is when university is wrong.

Yes, student loans do cost money, often set and fixed above the real rate of inflation. And they are set to cost lots more.

Lokolo

savvystudent wrote: »

Yes, student loans do cost money, often set and fixed above the real rate of inflation. And they are set to cost lots more.

The current student loan interest rate is what?
The current rate of inflation is what?

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And they might not be put to commercial rates, this is just one option. Although, I do agree with you on this and it shouldn't happen.