Railway by-law expert needed - walking through first class with std class ticket?

Stigy

harz99 wrote: »

Trouble is if you read her later post 4, hubby walks through the first class to get off quicker at the London Termini. With most slam door stock (and I can only think of HSTs and a few longer distance loco hauled stock trains) nowadays there will not be another standard class vehicle beyond the first class ones - so he would have been in contravention.

Different if had boarded first class in London and was walking through to Stanadard I guess.

Indeed in that case, although I would hope common sense would prevail and at worst he'd be asked to leave and alight somewhere else. Having said that, if an RPI had reason to believe he had been sitting in there for the duration of his journey, then he could obviously be reported for it.

thursdaynext

Recently on Virgin there have been announcements telling us plebs in standard class not to walk through first class to get to the front of the train as it gets to Euston as it is a health and safety risk.

Apparently, over the last 10 mins or so of the trip, staff are cleaning glasses & crockery from tables so the presence of people moving about is a hazard.

This announcement is, to my mind, even more amusing than the one which instructs passengers that the train is splitting in two and if they're in the wrong bit, then they should de-train. I work hard at my de-training, me...

laird

Tradition says that First Class is positioned to be nearest the terminal platform (London having so many terminal platforms this usually means toward London).

The guard can enforce the separation using the Railway Byelaw preventing Standard Class ticket holders occupying space in the First Class carriage. Vestibules, floorspace, luggage racks and so forth in First Class are for the exclusive use of First Class ticket holders.
There have been complaints from the First Class ticket holders about the Standard Class passengers occupying these areas and pushing through to get to the nearest door to the station exit.

If you've paid for First Class then it is I guess one of the small perks.
As someone that does travel Standard Class, in truth by the time you push through you might as well be relaxed and leave at your nearest door and using the extra width of the platform over the standard class carriage then you can still be quicker than all the first class passengers to the barriers.
There is also the argument in favour of safety, being further from the point of impact is normally a good thing so everyone crowding round the frontmost door is unlikely to result well if something unfortunate does happen.

Years ago there were doors at the buffet car separating Standard Class and First Class which were marked First Class ticket holders only beyond this point, perhaps it is time to re-install these.

pinkteapot

Mk14:37 wrote: »

This is the reason that the rule is in force (if not always enforced!). See this article from 2007:
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article2310418.ece

Thought that might be the case... From my station, a standard class season ticket is almost £4k. A first class season ticket is £6.5k. I'm considering upgrading next year and for that amount of money I'd want quiet enjoyment.

I agree with others here - I don't bother walking through. Not so much for the safety aspect but just because I can't be bothered with staggering along a moving train as it's changing tracks all over the place entering the terminal, for the sake of saving a couple of minutes when I disembark.

We do have a buffet car between first and standard. On some of the stock it's a full carriage, on others it takes up half a carriage with the rest of that carriage being standard class seats. We only moved house in August - further from London and so started using these trains. I am liking the fact there's a bar on board on a Friday night.

mjm3346

pinkteapot wrote: »

another commuter told hubby that a couple of days ago he had been standing in the vestibule between two first class carriages and been given a fine (at which point he gave a fake name and address to the guard :eek:).

If he did not pay the fine at the time they usually require proof of id, if the other commuter has false id presumably he is a regular fare evader.

Apart from the safety aspect and protecting the comfort of the first class passengers another reason not to permit it is to stop the "squatters", second class passangers who sit in first class then jump up to move to second when they see a ticket inspector coming.

Stigy

mjm3346 wrote: »

If he did not pay the fine at the time they usually require proof of id, if the other commuter has false id presumably he is a regular fare evader.

Apart from the safety aspect and protecting the comfort of the first class passengers another reason not to permit it is to stop the "squatters", second class passangers who sit in first class then jump up to move to second when they see a ticket inspector coming.

They require ID yes, but if a passenger doesn't have any they can't do anything about it. Usually you can catch people out be asking then about their address (ie; their neighbour's name or surrounding buildings), bear in mind IRCAS or IPSS who carry out name checks can bring up Google maps, and although they can't disclose names not at that address, if you say to them, "does the neighbour's name begin with the letter G" or something, you're halfway there!

mjm3346

Stigy wrote: »

They require ID yes, but if a passenger doesn't have any they can't do anything about it.

I have seen them (admittedly a while ago) phone and check details and if they cannot get them confirmed they escorted the passenger off at the next stop where BTP were waiting.