Internal changes in ex-council flat?

reluctantFTB

Hi! Considering putting an offer on an ex-council property that has a lot of potential (in our humble opinion)...

The flat in question is in a building that has since mid 2000 been managed by Poplar Harca (social housing landlord), and before that it was Tower Hamlets council property. The flat is currently set out as one bed but could be easily transformed into a two bed (all the walls that would need moving are not load bearing and some are just part of various storage cupboards - actual builder/surveyer has viewed it and has confirmed this).

The question is - what, if anything would we be allowed to change internaly seeing this is a leashold with social landlord / local authority lease in place.
This is what Poplar Harca website says about leaseholders right to any internal works:

"Changes
You have the right to make changes to the inside of your flat, as long as you do not remove structural walls or cause damage to the outside or shared parts of the building. (See section five – ‘Changes to your property’.)"

- What does it mean in real terms?
- Definition of "structural wall", does it include any internal walls, or those that are load bearing?
- Would we need a written permision from freeholder (Poplar Harca) if we are to change internal layout and if so does anyone have any advice about such process?
- What about land registry? If the number of rooms in the property is to change would land registry need amending?
- If there's any legal work involved could it be done by our solicitor while buying a property, thus not having to pay extra later?
- Any other valuable tips, personal experiences etc. connected to this particular issue?

Cheers

reluctantFTB

reluctantFTB wrote: »

Hi! Considering putting an offer on an ex-council property that has a lot of potential (in our humble opinion)...

The flat in question is in a building that has since mid 2000 been managed by Poplar Harca (social housing landlord), and before that it was Tower Hamlets council property. The flat is currently set out as one bed but could be easily transformed into a two bed (all the walls that would need moving are not load bearing and some are just part of various storage cupboards - actual builder/surveyer has viewed it and has confirmed this).

The question is - what, if anything would we be allowed to change internaly seeing this is a leashold with social landlord / local authority lease in place.
This is what Poplar Harca website says about leaseholders right to any internal works:

"Changes
You have the right to make changes to the inside of your flat, as long as you do not remove structural walls or cause damage to the outside or shared parts of the building. (See section five – ‘Changes to your property’.)"

- What does it mean in real terms?
- Definition of "structural wall", does it include any internal walls, or those that are load bearing?
- Would we need a written permision from freeholder (Poplar Harca) if we are to change internal layout and if so does anyone have any advice about such process?
- What about land registry? If the number of rooms in the property is to change would land registry need amending?
- If there's any legal work involved could it be done by our solicitor while buying a property, thus not having to pay extra later?
- Any other valuable tips, personal experiences etc. connected to this particular issue?

Cheers

Any thoughts?? Anyone??

clutton_2

one of my properties is an ex local authority flat.. and my solicitor spent ages when i bought it adding and changing clauses to the Lease... as he was not happy with the way it had been drawn up. This took months, and i had to pay the council's legal fees to make these changes.

I made changes to the heating system, and as long as i produced paperwork to show that it had all been done by a CORGI gas man they were quite happy.

But, in this day and age, councils are charging for everything they think they can get away with.. and more...

Re your quotes from your lease.. it does not say you need to have permission to change (unless it says so somewhere else in the lease)

i would take it at face value and assume that i could demolish internal non-load-bearing walls....

i cannot recall that land registry records actually show the number of bedrooms.....

i think THE most important thing to worry about with such a flat is Major Works costs .... find out when Major Works were last done and what they entailed. If they were done in the ownership of the current owner (rather than tenant) DO make sure you find out for sure that they were paid for, as if they are not, you will be liable for up to 6 years......

If there have been no major works, you may want to re-think your purchase as these can be thousands and thousands if a block has had no renovatioin since original build.... and if you are one of only a few owner occupiers there is unlikely to be any sort of fighting fund to pay for major works.

reluctantFTB

clutton wrote: »

one of my properties is an ex local authority flat.. and my solicitor spent ages when i bought it adding and changing clauses to the Lease... as he was not happy with the way it had been drawn up. This took months, and i had to pay the council's legal fees to make these changes.

Thanks for your reply clutton - very helpful! I had no idea that solicitor could actually ask for the clauses in lease to be changed... FTB ignorance If you don't mind could you please give figure that council charged for your solicitor making changes?

I made changes to the heating system, and as long as i produced paperwork to show that it had all been done by a CORGI gas man they were quite happy.

But, in this day and age, councils are charging for everything they think they can get away with.. and more...

Re your quotes from your lease.. it does not say you need to have permission to change (unless it says so somewhere else in the lease)

The quote I put in my original question is from their website, section on Responsibilities and rights of leaseholders, as for the actual lease it gets bit more difficult as seller didn't provide copy and the website has pdf summaries of three different leases, that of Tower Hamlets, Greater London and that on of Poplar Harca... it's any ones guess as to which one of those applies. I assume it is Tower Hamlets as the flat was bought under Right to buy scheme and before it was taken over by Poplar Harca. But without seeing actual lease, it's hard to tell. Anyway the bits that are referring to changes in flats in each of those respective leases are as follows:

Tower Hamlets lease:
Not carry out any alterations or additions to the dwelling without making a
detailed written application to the landlord and obtaining written consent, and
completing any work to the satisfaction of the landlord;

Grater London lease:
7 (g) Complying with any legal requirements relating to the dwelling, including
not carrying out any work that requires planning consent or breaking any planning
requirement and to inform the landlord of planning proposal that affects the dwelling;

11 (k) Not carrying out any alterations to the dwelling (including fences, poles,
wires or aerials and any central heating or hot water system) without the landlord’s
consent;

Poplar Harca lease:
5 Not carry out any alterations or additions to the dwelling without making a
detailed written application to the landlord and obtaining written consent, and
completing any work to the satisfaction of the landlord;

I assume if these clauses are in the lease than we'd have to ask for written permission from them to do any changes? And I assume that would mean a lot of paperwork, possibly surveys, plans etc... sort of like planning permissions for extensions and like?! Sounds costly!!!

i cannot recall that land registry records actually show the number of bedrooms.....

Doesn't lease and land registry need updating each time any changes to the actual layout are made? Or am I misunderstanding that - was told that, but now I'm not sure any more?

i think THE most important thing to worry about with such a flat is Major Works costs .... find out when Major Works were last done and what they entailed. If they were done in the ownership of the current owner (rather than tenant) DO make sure you find out for sure that they were paid for, as if they are not, you will be liable for up to 6 years......

If there have been no major works, you may want to re-think your purchase as these can be thousands and thousands if a block has had no renovatioin since original build.... and if you are one of only a few owner occupiers there is unlikely to be any sort of fighting fund to pay for major works.

Thanks for pointing that out, yes there were major works done recently, but are all done and paid for... we'd also double check there's nothing outstanding in terms of cost and works.