Boiler replacement quote

keystone

jkgray wrote: »

Fitted price is less than £200 above the retail cost of the boiler.

INdeed that is what the site says but it means that you can buy one fitted, subject to survey when the price will go upwards alarmingly, for retail plus iro £ 200 as a package. That does not mean buy the boiler from shop X and get it fitted by shop Y for £ 200. Nor does it mean that a good price for fitting any boiler is £ 200. Thats the flawed mathematical logic.

Whether it is possible to legally fit that boiler does not change the math so there is no flaw in the 'mathematical logic'.

You raised the subject of the real world. In the real world current Building Regs prevent you installing that boiler if you go along and buy it today. The arithmetic is a separate subject.

Cheers

keystone

jkgray wrote: »

So obviously a completely fly by night operation! :whistle:

It could be considered so if its offering products for sale that, if purchased from them now, cannot legally be installed.

Cheers

gas4you

jkgray wrote: »

I expected this completely unsubstantiated point to be made hence why I specifically provided the link to their 'about us' page - "family run department store based in Liverpool since 1971 ... In August 2009 Rapid moved its entire operation into the former John Lewis Building located at Williamson Square, right in the heart of the city centre ... We have now fully refurbished over 100,000 sq ft "

So obviously a completely fly by night operation! :whistle:

Note I said 'cowboy price', not cowboy firm.

Just because one may have large premises, does not make one a good and reliable firm. Indeed the higher the overheads then the less likely you are of getting a good installation that is cheap.

lightSwitch_3

keystone wrote: »

Actually you are but you haven't realised it yet. You are adopting an "ive made up my mind don't confuse me with facts" approach.

Where are you getting this stuff from:question:

keystone wrote: »

Your individual estimate of prices is truly irrelevant. The plumber quoted for a job. You managed, somehow, to draw the conclusion that he was charging £ 600 for a new gas feed (which is nothing less than pure guesswork) yet you clearly have no idea why it will be needed.

Listen, the plumber is making up a price, I made a fair one. What's the problem. He may need a pipe he may not, we don't know. The amount of stuff I've been told I need but didn't .....
Why is it that every time an engineer can't fix my boiler, he says "it needs a flush mate". :rotfl: They are meant to be bonafide from the insurance company.

keystone wrote: »

I can imagine the number of people reading this who are having sheer hysteria at this very thought because it shows how far out your mathematics is.

Of course it is. The average plumbers salary was £70,000 nearly 10 years ago. The flabbergusted media picked up on it!

keystone wrote: »

The Poles did, the Poles got found out, many of the Poles have gone home. You are out of touch truly and I'm not trying to be offensive in saying that.

I'm talking about legitimate ones.

lightSwitch_3

gas4you wrote: »

Note I said 'cowboy price', not cowboy firm.

Just because one may have large premises, does not make one a good and reliable firm. Indeed the higher the overheads then the less likely you are of getting a good installation that is cheap.

I don't mean cowboy jobs. If I can't verify that the guy is legit and competent I won't use him.

If plumbers want to charge heavily for jobs on business premises then you can at least say that they will earn that money back, or it is the cost of doing business, but please be reasonable with residential work, especially for the elderly.

keystone

lightSwitch wrote: »

Where are you getting this stuff from:question:

From what you write - I might ask you the same question.

Listen, the plumber is making up a price,

You know this how?

I made a fair one.

Are you completely familiar with what work has to be done and the timescales that are required? No?. Don't forget the TRV discussion you had with G4U a little further up this thread.

What's the problem.

If the answer to question above is no you have your answer.

He may need a pipe he may not, we don't know.

Yes we do. He will. It can be guaranteed. Now do you know why? You clearly don't otherwise you would have answered since I already asked you. So if you don't know you are not in a position to dismiss the task as not needed and certainly in no position to value it. Im still bemused about how it is that you can dogmatically state he us charging £ 600 for that little taskette? The truth is you can't and you actually undermine your own arguments by sticking to that story.

The amount of stuff I've been told I need but didn't .....

I have some sympathy with that POV and I meet that everywhere I go from all professions.

Why is it that every time an engineer can't fix my boiler, he says "it needs a flush mate".

I have a great deal of sympathy with that POV. Its BGs stock answer to most problems and they are not unique.

Of course it is. The average plumbers salary was £70,000 nearly 10 years ago. The flabbergusted media picked up on it!

Are you talking about plumbers in employment or self employed? The self employed are not allowed to pay themselves a salary. The self employed are taxed on 100% of their "profits" after deductions for all business expenses, you know minor little irritants like insurances (public liability, etc), registrations, training costs, professional body fees, accountancy, legal, advertising, van, tools, fuel etc etc etc etc. Self employed don't get company pension schemes. Self employed only get paid when they are working and being productive rather than getting paid 5 days week, 52 weeks a year like a great number of people. So by the time you've taken off allowances for all that lot and the taxman has taken his not insignificant wedge theres really not that much left and I'll bet a brass farthing you are basing your £100k on the wrong end .of the calculation. So where does this £ 100k come from - let me guess. You say that plumbers earn £ 120 an hour and extrapolated from there. Still seems like guesswork to me.

As a matter of interest average salaries for plumbers employed by companies (verify it if you want):

2010 - 25k
2006 - 26k
2002 - 30k

The flabbergasted media like sensationlist stories. Don't believe everthing you read in the press.

So where do you get your number from? Oh yes - I know. Plumber charges £30 to change a TRV, it takes 15 minutes so thats £120 an hour and you've extrapolated from there. More guesswork.

I'm talking about legitimate ones.

Were you?

Cheers

noodlepie

The problem is that you have a blockage in you heating system pipework. Get a couple of quotes. You want a medium sized company. Not someone working on their own.
Agree a fixed priced for the repair and upgrade of your heating system, including a new boiler, magnetic filter etc.
It could well be that the upgrade and new boiler do not fix the problem.
What you want is a written quote saying that your heating system will work when the upgrade is complete. Some gas engineers might struggle to repair your system and they will charge by the hour until it finished.
Fix the price or you might end up with a nasty bill at the end.
Could be cheaper to rip the lot out and start again. Hidden blockages are a nightmare.

lightSwitch_3

keystone wrote: »

From what you write - I might ask you the same question.

You know this how?

Are you completely familiar with what work has to be done and the timescales that are required? No?. Don't forget the TRV discussion you had with G4U a little further up this thread.

If the answer to question above is no you have your answer.

Yes we do. He will. It can be guaranteed. Now do you know why? You clearly don't otherwise you would have answered since I already asked you. So if you don't know you are not in a position to dismiss the task as not needed and certainly in no position to value it. Im still bemused about how it is that you can dogmatically state he us charging £ 600 for that little taskette? The truth is you can't and you actually undermine your own arguments by sticking to that story.

I have some sympathy with that POV and I meet that everywhere I go from all professions.

I have a great deal of sympathy with that POV. Its BGs stock answer to most problems and they are not unique.

Are you talking about plumbers in employment or self employed? The self employed are not allowed to pay themselves a salary. The self employed are taxed on 100% of their "profits" after deductions for all business expenses, you know minor little irritants like insurances (public liability, etc), registrations, training costs, professional body fees, accountancy, legal, advertising, van, tools, fuel etc etc etc etc. Self employed don't get company pension schemes. Self employed only get paid when they are working and being productive rather than getting paid 5 days week, 52 weeks a year like a great number of people. So by the time you've taken off allowances for all that lot and the taxman has taken his not insignificant wedge theres really not that much left and I'll bet a brass farthing you are basing your £100k on the wrong end .of the calculation. So where does this £ 100k come from - let me guess. You say that plumbers earn £ 120 an hour and extrapolated from there. Still seems like guesswork to me.

As a matter of interest average salaries for plumbers employed by companies (verify it if you want):

2010 - 25k
2006 - 26k
2002 - 30k

The flabbergasted media like sensationlist stories. Don't believe everthing you read in the press.

So where do you get your number from? Oh yes - I know. Plumber charges £30 to change a TRV, it takes 15 minutes so thats £120 an hour and you've extrapolated from there. More guesswork.

Were you?

Cheers

When you bite you don't let go!!
I didn't realise you were actually looking for an answer. But I guess the pipe is required because long time since the last installation new standards/fittings or new regulations.

I;m talking about self employed plumbers. But even if you use a company they will charge you just as much. That;s £30k for the plumber and goodness knows how much for the company itself.
BG's quote for a new boiler 4 years ago was £3500. That's just a new boiler. Say £700 for the boiler £300 in wages for the installer and £2500 for BG. Tell me that is not a rip-off.

I had valves changed 12 years ago at £20 each so I'm guessing £30 now.

The £100K was from £1800 labour for that job times 52 weeks.

You keep saying I'm estimating. Why does that bother you so much? How does one decide when they are being over charged?

lightSwitch_3

noodlepie wrote: »

The problem is that you have a blockage in you heating system pipework. Get a couple of quotes. You want a medium sized company. Not someone working on their own.
Agree a fixed priced for the repair and upgrade of your heating system, including a new boiler, magnetic filter etc.
It could well be that the upgrade and new boiler do not fix the problem.
What you want is a written quote saying that your heating system will work when the upgrade is complete. Some gas engineers might struggle to repair your system and they will charge by the hour until it finished.
Fix the price or you might end up with a nasty bill at the end.
Could be cheaper to rip the lot out and start again. Hidden blockages are a nightmare.

My mother's boiler stopped working, engineer came, couldn't fix it but on the phone was boasting he could fix them all, charged my mum £50 for a cup of tea.

keystone

lightSwitch wrote: »

When you bite you don't let go!!

Too right I do when I read uninformed BS and disinformation.

I didn't realise you were actually looking for an answer. But I guess the pipe is required because long time since the last installation new standards/fittings or new regulations.

Thank you. The new boilers require increased flow rate so the gas supply from the meter has to be upgraded to 22mm from what is inevitably 15mm. My point is this. If its 2 feet and £600 then that would be a ripoff. If its 150 metres and a very difficult run then £ 600 that would not be - but we don't actually know that its £600 do we? So not only have you guessed a number which is probably incorrect you don't know the work involved either and neither do I because I haven't seen it and can't make a judgement. The plumber who quoted has seen it yet you (based on guesswork and insufficient knowledge) slate him and all others as rip-off merchants! Thats what I object to.

The £100K was from £1800 labour for that job times 52 weeks.

Thanks - you have proved my point exactly. Even if you are correct that the labour on the job is £1800 (which I doubt but never mind) thats £ 1800 income to his business. And you may like to know that any business turnover over £70k this year has to pay VAT to HMG on the whole lot. How does your equation relate to a salary then?

You keep saying I'm estimating. Why does that bother you so much? How does one decide when they are being over charged?

No I don't - I keep saying you are guessing and the two quantities are quite different and thats why it bothers me. You are guessing and as a result slating all plumbers (and presumably other trades given half the chance) as rip off metchants earning 100k a year as a salary. Its palpable nonsense. I'm here doing paperwork for HMRC this morning (grrr) - I don't get paid for my time doing that either. Add that to my list from last night please.

As regards being overcharged you yourself have said get three quotes. Absolutely correct. I say the same. I say use recommendations from trusted friends and family to get those quotes. Get quotes not estimates - quotes are at contractors risk, estimates are at clients risk.

Cheers