Valuation of Fixture & fittings / 3% Stamp duty

sva14

I am buying a property, where I have agreed the price as £250,000 for the house and £7,000 for the fixture and fittings.

My solicitor has requested me to get the F & F valued. I have spoken to the estate agent selling the property and they say they cannot do the valuers and don't know anyone to recommend.

I went back to the sols and they also said they don't know anyone either, but suggested I try antique dealers from the yellow pages. But these say NO.

Does anyone know who could do the valuation. Or is it I will have to pay 3% Stamp duty on £257,000?

Is there any possibility I could haggle the seller down a little by saying that the overall cost of the house has now gone up by £5000 due to having paying more stamp dudty, which I first did not expect?

Thanks

silvercar

the problem is that £7,000 looks a lot of money for second hand items unless they are antique. A solicitor is not going to allow you to split the cost in this way unless the F&F are worth £7,000. To do so would be a deliberate attempt to defraud and no solicitor is going to be party to that.

PoorDave

Couldn't you ask the vendors to get this done if they want to go with your original offer? The F & F's do belong to them, after all.

Or at least get a list of what's supposedly included in this deal (which lets face it is a bit of a scam!) to see for yourself whether £7k is something you're realistically likely to get away with.

loveandlight

I would speak direct to the Stamp Duty Office. This happened to me two and a half years ago. I bought a house for £250k and my vendors ( who were elderly) wanted £5k for F&F.

My solicitors sent me a snotty letter trying to distance themselves from me, saying that I was attempting to defraud the government and they wanted no part of it. I was so angry at such an accusation. All I had done was agree to pay my vendors what they wanted through their estate agents, as I definitely wanted the house.

My vendors were worried sick, as their solicitors had also told them that if they went through with the sale of £5k f&f, they would be committing fraud. So they wanted to reduce the price to £1k.

I really felt for them as one of them was battling with cancer and they needed every penny they could save. So I phoned the Stamp Duty Office myself. They were very nice about the whole thing and told me that a lot of solicitors kept misunderstanding the changes in the Stamp Duty Rules and that there was absolutely nothing wrong at all with paying £5k for the f&f provided the actual sale price of the house wasn't being separated and an amount charged for something that was permanently fixed in the property anyway e.g. Fitted kitchen units, bedroom fitted furniture.

From what I can remember, its anything that's permanent that is under question, not fittings that are easily removable like curtains, lawn mower etc.

Understandably, my elderly vendors were so scared by what their solicitors had told them, that they didn't feel able to believe me and instead reduced their f&f from £5k to £1k. So I got to keep £4000 in my bank account as well as all the f&f!!

densol_2

I thought this loophole had been closed recently ? That is what I read in a homes magazine - Location Location Locations one I think- best to check !!

sva14

densol wrote:

I thought this loophole had been closed recently ? That is what I read in a homes magazine - Location Location Locations one I think- best to check !!

Hi thanks for info, can you or some one tell me where I can read info on this loop hole been closed?

silvercar

I think the revenue take an interest in transactions near the stamp duty border lines as they are obvious places to look for fraud.

I'm not saying you are trying to defraud, I'm just saying that is an obvious place to look. saying you are paying £250,000 + £7,000 for F&F is fine if the F&F are worth £7,000. If they are not, you can't do it. Whereas claiming £1,000 for F&F would not attract attention, £7,000 could be said to be taking the mickey.

Which is why I am assuming your solicitor has said it is fine provided you can show a valuation.

loveandlight

Hi thanks for info, can you or some one tell me where I can read info on this loop hole been closed?

Try phoning the Stamp Duty office. Surely that'll be cheaper and a lot quicker than trying to locate a magazine that may not even be correct? At the end of the day you answer to the Stamp Duty office anyway.

Sumostar

As long as the price for the f&f is reasonable then you should be OK.

PoorDave is right, you need a comprehensive list with sensible proces against it. If you are paying £300 for a dining room suite that is 100 years old then that is reasonable, but paying that for a second hand one from Ikea isn't.

I'm paying £5k for f&f, but it's a fully furnished 5 bed Edwardian terrace. More than reasonable.

Woby_Tide

satish98 wrote:

I am buying a property, where I have agreed the price as £250,000 for the house and £7,000 for the fixture and fittings.

My solicitor has requested me to get the F & F valued. I have spoken to the estate agent selling the property and they say they cannot do the valuers and don't know anyone to recommend.

I went back to the sols and they also said they don't know anyone either, but suggested I try antique dealers from the yellow pages. But these say NO.

Does anyone know who could do the valuation. Or is it I will have to pay 3% Stamp duty on £257,000?

Is there any possibility I could haggle the seller down a little by saying that the overall cost of the house has now gone up by £5000 due to having paying more stamp dudty, which I first did not expect?

Thanks

what was the asking price of the house in the first place?

Norroy

Find out howmuch the vendor is paying the estate agent for the sale. Let's say this sum is £5000 incl VAT, you can then pay this fee for them (on completion) thus reducin the F & F figure to a more credible £2000.

Like so many taxes Stamp Duty is nothing more than State authorised extortion. This money is yours not theirs and I urge you to fight it with every last fibre of your being.