CSA not involved - but advice needed

Sal5oh

Hi,
My son has has asked me to write here for some advice.
He is a young parent, seperated from his child's mother, (20 & 19), he was at University but due to illness has had to give up and is awaiting a decision for ESA(?) so is at home on a basic benefit, his ex lives in a rented 2 bedroom house with their 2 year old. They share custody but she is careful never to allow the child to sleep over more than 3 nights even though the baby could be here 5 out of 7 days (actually is usually 4; 3 then a 2 day break then 1). She literally hands the child over in the clothes they are wearing and that's it, no nappies, no extra clothing, nothing. In fact now the weather has started changing we've had to call to her house to get a coat and shoes in order to go out as the baby just had on jeans, t shirt and canvas pumps!
What he's wondering is if he's entitled to any money to help look after the child whilst in his care? We feed and clothe whilst our grand child is here, making sure that the child always goes home in the clothes they arrived in - in fact we've just had to buy a new coat as all the coats/jackets we have bought have ended up at her house!
We won't see the child go without but we're on state pension and can't afford a whole wardrobe for a fast growing child - especially when sometimes we never see the stuff again!
My son feels guilty that he can't buy things for his child and angry that mum has allowances for the child but isn't actually full time carer.

Does anyone have any advice?

clearingout

the short answer is that Tax Credits and Child Benefit are payable once for each child only so assuming she's claiming all of that, then the answer is no.

is the child with you whilst she works or goes to college? or is she just leaving him with you whilst she goes out and does whatever it is she does?

I don't blame her for not leaving him with you for more nights - I detect (and my apologies if this isn't the case)a level of 'attitude' directed towards her and I suspect she would be nervous about you saying that she wasn't coping and/or of an attempt to remove the child from her on the basis that dad is at home and able to care for the child whilst she is out doing whatever she's doing (if not working or going to college then really, she has a right to fear that, however).

If your son is making no financial contribution to his son's upbringing (other than childcare whilst she works or goes to college?) then frankly, I don't really blame her for not supplying nappies or additional clothing whilst he is with you. I suspect, however, that others will disagree with that. What is a concern is that he isn't being dressed in seasonally appropriate clothing and other than tackling her about this head on (in as gentle a way as possible), I'm not sure there's much else you can do. One attitude to take is to dress him whatever clothes you want whilst he's with you and return him in the clothes she sends him in. That's fair - although be prepared for her to get annoyed and call you petty for it!

What is the relationship between mum and dad like? honestly? I would suggest that you speak with your son about trying to put aside any difficulties he may have had with her in the past and attempt to 'start again'. Be clear with him that he shouldn't make any 'threats', veiled or otherwise, to take the child from her - as a young mum I suspect she will feel very vulnerable and if she can't afford legal advice, will feel afraid of what might happen if she leaves her son with you for a longer time. He could suggest mediation which should be free for both of them whilst on such low incomes and would involve a third party in helping them draw up some ground rules and work things through. Above all, your son needs to adopt a 'working with her for the benefit of the child' approach, not against her.

Mum isn't obliged to be 'full time carer' to receive all the benefits that go with that. It is unfair where care is shared, I agree, but actually, she probably gets annoyed at the fact that he isn't supporting his child when with him - his parents (you) are. There will be resentment at that fact, I'm sure. What is her relationship like with her own family? are they supportive - emotionally, pratically, financially? It is very hard being a 'single mum', I am 40 and had my children later in life and was left pregnant with our third child by a philandering husband. But I feel the stigma of 'being on benefits' and being a 'single mum' much the same, I feel, as young mums who had children very young and who have never been married. I feel constantly judged, rightly or wrongly. Society as a whole is very hard on us - I have even had people tell me that I should have made a better marriage choice! Perhaps I should - but I married a man I loved who, on our wedding day at least, was decent, kind and supportive. No one could have predicted the man he became 10 years later. Anyone who knows him is surprised -I wasn't blind!

It is hard work trying to parent in these circumstances. Try and develop a working relationship with mum and see how it goes. She may always remain hostile at some level, but if you can assure her you're on her side, it should go along way to doing what's best for the child. It's him, after all, who's the important one in all of this. Keep posting - everyone will do their best to help.

shell_542

There's not much your son can do ad he doesn't qualify for anything being the "non resident parent" on terms of overnights.

I don't see the need to assume the worst and that the NRP is in the wrong here. It's not unheard of for PWCs (of both sexes) to limit the number of overnights for fear of losing money or the resident parent status.

If that is the case (rather than the scenario detailed in the previous post) it's a shame he is being put into that position, but there's not much he can do because the child would be affected. Refusing to have him on any other day that set contact times will only mean he loses out with contact with his Dad and Mum can use it against him. I can totally see why it's annoying though that he's basically the resident parent with the time he has the child but he gets no support that resident parents (sometimes) get.

He's just got to think of the long term and try and bite his Tongue. One day his son might vote with his feet and decide to live with Dad. But even if he doesn't, he will have benefitted from a loving, close relationship with his father.

bdt1

Are you asking regarding EMA????? As this is a payment he would have been entitled to were he still studying - not entitled to now he is no longer in studies.

It is a shame he has had to abandon his studies for now, but maybe he could look at part-time employment or somewhere for a source of income in order to help assist the support of himself financially and his child. This would I suspect help the situation, and at least be able to provide suitable clothing/nappies for the child.

I do not know of any benefits he may be entitled so, as the mother is the main carer of the child, but if they are sharing care, and it is 50/50, I have known of cases where both parents individually apply for CSA money/or child support from the other, and some Judge's have deemed that each parent provide for the child whilst in their care, yet, do not request financial support from the other party

Sal5oh

Thanks for the prompt replies, it's interesting 'clearing out' that you sense an 'attitude' I can tell you there isn't an 'attitude' from him to her, it's probably frustration from Granny when the poor little mite arrives in literaly what they stand up in. My son actually doesn't confront her at all as he is terrified she will stop him seeing his child, she does call all the shots.

shell_542 wrote: »

There's not much your son can do ad he doesn't qualify for anything being the "non resident parent" on terms of overnights.

I don't see the need to assume the worst and that the NRP is in the wrong here. It's not unheard of for PWCs (of both sexes) to limit the number of overnights for fear of losing money or the resident parent status. This is exactly the reason, she's said so.

If that is the case (rather than the scenario detailed in the previous post) it's a shame he is being put into that position, but there's not much he can do because the child would be affected. Refusing to have him on any other day that set contact times will only mean he loses out with contact with his Dad and Mum can use it against him. I can totally see why it's annoying though that he's basically the resident parent with the time he has the child but he gets no support that resident parents (sometimes) get. This is what is so frustrating, all the support is there for HER to ask for but not for him.

He's just got to think of the long term and try and bite his Tongue. One day his son might vote with his feet and decide to live with Dad. But even if he doesn't, he will have benefitted from a loving, close relationship with his father.This is what keeps him going

I just think it's really unfair, the baby is with us 4 out of 7 days but because it's only 3 nights it doesn't constitute 50/50 care he gets no support at all. He only gets basic single young person benefit at the moment so by the time he's paid towards the bills he hasn't got much left, certainly not to buy a wardrobe of decent clothing, shoes etc. He now gets upset because as a young single man he's only allowed housing benefit for one room and his child can't be taken into consideration because it's not 50/50 care so he can't move out to make a home for them both. He just sees her getting all the benefits whilst he only gets the valued time with his child with no help whatsoever.

Rikki

Sal5oh wrote: »

He just sees her getting all the benefits whilst he only gets the valued time with his child with no help whatsoever.

Quality time with his child is worth more than money, it's priceless and many Fathers don't get this. Enjoy this special time.

I understand you frustration as the Mother has all the benefits. The only thing I can suggest is your son and her talk about it, maybe she brings a change of clothes and nappies with him each day.

JulietAmber_2

I do feel for your son. My advice would be for him to get things done legally - a contact/consent order. This will give him peace of mind that he will be able to see his son and she can't call all the shots. A solicitor will also be able to lay out financial stuff.
Keep clothes/items for the child at your house and this will put a stop to buying things and then not having them returned. It neednt be expensive - I buy most of my kids clothes from boot fairs and charity shops. Children's Centres are good - ask around for 'handmedowns' and there are lots of groups for parents - I run a 'Fun With Under 5's' session and often see grandparents and fathers.
Lucky baby to have a great granny!
Good luck x

Soubrette

ebay, freecycle and charity shops are useful places to look for cheaper (or free) children's clothes.

I must admit to being a bit funny about shoes and have always paid for them to be measured and fitted but every day clothes can be bought quite cheaply.

Personally I think it is fair that the person who gets the benefits should provide the things like nappies etc but in the end the PWC is the one that decides how to spend those benefits. It's not necessarily fair but the only thing your son can do is open dialogue.

McKneff

Car boot sales, charity shops, you dont have to be rich pensioners to clothe a toddler.

Coats, shirts etc go for 50p at car boot sales and because that's what nana's do.

Annie

McKneff

Personally, i wouldnt dream of buying childrens shoes second hand. The shoes have already moulded to the first
pair of feet so dont like to think what it would do for the second pair.

Anything else, you could kit a toddler out for a couple of quid.

Sal5oh

Thanks, I do use ebay a lot it's a life saver, I do get annoyed though when the little one turns up in cheap supermarket shoes, I don't think his feet have ever been measured ( I can't afford Clark's prices so feel bad going in and wasting their time just for a measure). I feel really upset because this is the one thing I made sure of with my children, that their shoes fitted properly, and it breaks my heart that I can't do it now.
My lovely son gets so upset that he can't go to the shops and buy things as he feels he should, and it's worse at birthdays and Christmas because he just can't afford to do it.