is incapacity benefit going to means tested?

olias

No. I disagree, I save so I can enjoy the fruits of my hard labour and prudence and be able to afford some of the nicer things in life without having to struggle and go into debt to do so. I do not save and leave myself short, struggling through difficult times with the intention, 'I'm doing this in order to save the British taxpayer money in the future'.

If the Government financially penalises those who have saved hard all their lives, whilst bailing out those who have been irresponsible and blown everything they have had, then what message does that give to people?

Olias

cyclonebri1

olias wrote: »

No. I disagree, I save so I can enjoy the fruits of my hard labour and prudence and be able to afford some of the nicer things in life without having to struggle and go into debt to do so. I do not save and leave myself short, struggling through difficult times with the intention, 'I'm doing this in order to save the British taxpayer money in the future'.

If the Government financially penalises those who have saved hard all their lives, whilst bailing out those who have been irresponsible and blown everything they have had, then what message does that give to people?

Olias

And so do I, NI is an insurance, by that definition some will pay in but never claim, others less fortunate will need to claim.

Relate this to any other insurance, would direct line say; yes you have a claim, but because you can afford to pay for it yourself we are not paying out, and no, you can't have your premiums back:mad:

There simply has to be some incentive for people to provide for themselves otherwise these measures will have exactly the opposite effect to what's intended.

MRSTITTLEMOUSE

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Surely one of the main points of saving is that you can be independent and not need to rely on benefits in hard times? Isn't that what "saving for a rainy day" is all about?

Are you saying because some choose to do without and save they should never get any help should they need it and their NI contributions should just pay for other people who choose to spend whatever they had.
Like others have said national insurance is paid with the intention that should you need help you will receive it.
Why should those who have paid in to it never claim just because they have savings,they have every right to help.
It's a good job house,car insurance ect does'nt work like that is'nt it or there'd be a lot of problems and little point in paying the premiums.

[Deleted User]

the proposed universal benefit wont be introduced during this parliament,in fact the time scale is at least 10 years and possibly 2 general elections

cyclonebri1

cyberbob wrote: »

As incapacity benefit doesn't exist as a new benefit and all people claiming this are being moved over to ESA the short answer is I doubt it as fewer and fewer people are on this benefit it wouldn't save much money anyway.

.

I'm not sure if what you state there is fact or not, maybe someone could comment.

Let me just give my circumstances briefly and see how it would fit in with that proposal.

I took forced early retirement do to ill health at 55, about 3 years ago. I am unfit for work, had an IB medical last year and it gave a 2016 date for the next one. However as I have taken my (greatly reduced) pension my IB is reduced by something like 2/3 to 3/4 due to pension income.
I am not looking for work
How can forcing someone onto ESA or any employment benefit be suitable for anyone in my position. I could actually be better off in that situation if I was entitled to esa or whatever.

I'm no expert in these matters as you can probably tell, I never had anytime out of employment and only over the last couple of years have made any claims.

What I am rambling on about is there is a small category of people who are close to retirement, are unfit for work and for whom ESA etc is not a suitable alternative??

KxMx

Yes that's true, IB has been closed for a year or more to new claims, instead you have to claim ESA. This is the benefit all on IB will now be moved to.

ESA has two groups, the work group which means I think 5 JCP meetings a year and looking for work, and the support group, very hard to get into, and you're not expected to look for work. You are either on Income Based or Contributions (which has a one year time limit). Everyone who currently is on Incapacity Benefit alone will be moved to contributions. I am not sure how a pension would alter this.

tobykim

When will they be moving IB claimants over to ESA, I have an IB review date of 2013 is it likely to be before that.

tonycarew

tobykim wrote: »

When will they be moving IB claimants over to ESA, I have an IB review date of 2013 is it likely to be before that.

Copied from the Disability alliance site

Timetable for migration
IB migration trials are due to start in Aberdeen and Burnley from October 2010 using a sample of 1,700 claimants. DA's understanding is that these will be handled clerically, which means that DWP computer software will not be used or tested until full migration starts.
The main-roll out of migration of claimants from IB/income-related Income Support onto ESA will begin on 28 February 2011 and is due to finish in March 2014.
People reaching state pension age between these two dates will be excluded from the migration. This is the only group exempt from migration so far .
Arguments were put forward to move the Personal Capability Assessment exempt groups (about 30% of IB/IS claimants) onto the ESA Support Group but these were rejected. The Treasury are still mulling over what to do about pre-1995 tax exempt claimants (of IB and SDA).
For more information on incapacity benefits migration timetable see the DWP website at www.dwp.gov.uk/adviser/updates/ib-reassessing-claims/

Hope this helps

Tony.

billesniper

I would like to thank Tony for his post on the Disability alliance site, which lays out clearly the rules for claimants on IB. Thank you Tony.

cyclonebri1

tonycarew wrote: »

Copied from the Disability alliance site

Timetable for migration
IB migration trials are due to start in Aberdeen and Burnley from October 2010 using a sample of 1,700 claimants. DA's understanding is that these will be handled clerically, which means that DWP computer software will not be used or tested until full migration starts.
The main-roll out of migration of claimants from IB/income-related Income Support onto ESA will begin on 28 February 2011 and is due to finish in March 2014.
People reaching state pension age between these two dates will be excluded from the migration. This is the only group exempt from migration so far .
Arguments were put forward to move the Personal Capability Assessment exempt groups (about 30% of IB/IS claimants) onto the ESA Support Group but these were rejected. The Treasury are still mulling over what to do about pre-1995 tax exempt claimants (of IB and SDA).
For more information on incapacity benefits migration timetable see the DWP website at www.dwp.gov.uk/adviser/updates/ib-reassessing-claims/

Hope this helps

Tony.

Yes Tony that is useful. But take a look back at my last post. Is it conceivable that if I "pretend" to look for work, I could be better off as a result of these changes??

I'm not trying to benefit from the situation, just trying to understand if the measures have actually been thought through for everyone, ;)