Granite worktop of 2.8m - do I need a join

QTPie

Hi

I am currently having a bathroom installed and am having twin sinks set into a granite (stargate if t makes a different) worktop. The worktop is 2.8m long.

I was not there for the templating of the worktop (the bathroom guys just "got on with it" - I wasn't invited, but wasn't hugely worried... should have been straightforward). Had a good look yesterday to find that there are two seams/joins in the granite - behind the middle of each worktop. This surprised me because I always believed that it would be one, continuous slab of granite. I have an independent kitchen/bathroom specialist shop handling the installation (they are also handling another bathroom and the kitchen): so they have been dealing with the granite people.

Is there any technical reason why this worktop could not have been one slab? It sort of doesn't feel right to me...

I am attaching photos:



QT

Innys

In answer to your question, I'm afraid I don't know the answer. It seems odd that you do have a join as I understand granite comes in lengths of, typically, 3.0m.

It could be that when the template was prepared, the granite suppliers thought there was a risk of breakage in transporting a 2.8m length with the two large holes cut out for the sinks.

Given granite is expensive, I would have been involved in the discussions between the builder and granite supplier but it's too late now.

At any rate I'd be interested in what other MSEers have to say because I'm likely to use granite/quartz in my kitchen.

Best of luck

I

msfoxymax

There really shouldn't be joins in the granite unless its a return around a corner. I would be on the phone asap looking for an answer. The would not be worried about in breaking over time with natural movement as there seems to be a unit underneath that would give more support than the usual batten on the wall and panels?

QTPie

I have contacted the "Project Manager" (one of the partners in the kitchen/bathroom business): they are getting an arm and a leg from us, money-wise, to put this kitchen and bathrooms in... (MSEers would NOT be proud... but we have a lot on, at the moment, and the idea is to pay for less stress and some peace of mind).

The granite was hugely NOT cheap and I almost feel a bit short changed to not have one slab (if that makes sense). I definitely do not expect ANY corners cut at the price we have paid...

I assume that the first thing that I will be told, tomorrow, is that "oh we couldn't do one piece long enough" or possibly "the cut-outs make the slab too weak at those two points". Definitely hoping for some advice here to give me some idea of what is reasonable....

QT

Alan_M_2

A 2.8 metre length can be fabricated in a single piece.

However, there are considerations over and above if it's possible to fabricate it alone. Particularly if it's possible to transport, handle and install the piece with the required cut outs.

In the case of a reduced depth bathroon unit like yours at 350mm or smaller it's very unlikely this can be made in a single piece (as opposed to a kitchen worktop which at a usual depth of 600mm has more material to create structure and help with transport and handling). The narrow part behind the sink cutout would often fail in transit/handling (break).

I would personally have expected your installation to have been produced in two sections with a join between the cut outs, however the stonemason may have decided to produce the joins behind the cut outs therefore providing the shortest (least obtrusive) join possible, which isn't unreasonable.

Fundamentally this should have been discussed with you, this is the stonemasons remit, but as you've employed a designer/project manager this will at least have been discussed and agreed with them on your behalf.

As a matter of course we discuss where our customers are expecting and not expecting to see joins in their installation. As a rule of thumb, the less joins the more disproportionately expensive the installation becomes.

So whilst technically it's possible to produce the single piece in one piece, that is sometimes not the only thing that needs to be taken into consideration.

Add to this the following:-

Stargate granite (also known as Cosmos) is a very difficult to source African Granite, black with a silver fleck. The natural resources of this particualr material have been scarce or poor quality, so it's not beyond the realms of possiblilty that the quarried block may have been shorter than 2.8m on length meaning joins were a necessity.

Firstly I would ask why the joins have been placed where they are and why weren't you consulted.

QTPie

Thank you Alan.

So for the worktop shown, you don't think that it being supplied with one or more joins is unreasonable (I know your background, so appreciate your expertise and technical input)?

I think that you are completely right regarding me being kept informed.... There have been a few slips/oversights in the "project management" side and I am not 100% impressed. There fitters are excellent, fortunately.... but sometimes clarifying exactly how I want things (which cannot be fixed at design stage) or interfacing with my builders (who were gutting the house and prepped the kitchen and bathroom) not so....

Beyond "Stargate/Cosmos" is a mid-priced granite, nothing else was said about it (nothing regarding length). The worktop has cost just over £1180 (including kitchen/bathroom shop's probably hefty Mark-up...).

Do you think those are the finished joins/seams or do you think that I can expect something less obtrusive? Same guys are installing the kitchen worktop today and I am getting a little nervous (although I know where the joins are for that... I was at the templating). If the joins weren't as "in your face" then it probably wouldn't be so bad...

Thanks
QT

Alan_M_2

I would have been surprised if they'd have tried to install that particular top as a single piece. The risk of breakage would be too high (likely 70% +).

However, there's been a lack of communication, the joins should have been discussed with you, or at least you being given an option.

What a stonemason will generally do is put a join in the least obtrusive position by trying to make the join as short as possible. What they have done on your fit is not wrong, it should just have been talked through beforehand.

That said, it is not impossible for this piece to be fabricated in a single piece, but I would expect if you requested that, it would come with a rider that the company were not responsible for it's breakage if it did snap during transit/installation.

If the top were 600mm wide with inset or undermount sinks there would be little excuse for not having made it as a single piece, however, the length combined with the cut outs and the narrow width determine how it's fabricated.

This is nothing more than a lack of communication.

I think you'll find once the sink and tap are fitted (assuming it's a central tap) the join will be mostly hidden.

QTPie

Thanks Alan

Incredibly useful to have your expertise in this area: my aim is to be a demanding, but not unreasonable customer.... For what we are paying, I expect an excellent finished product, but I don't expect the impossible.

So I should be expecting similar quality of joins on the worktop (it is a good sized U shape, so unavoidable)? The joins will be more niticeable on the kitchen.

QT

Alan_M_2

There's no way around seeing joins with granite, it's part of the product, however they should all be level and reasonably tight (under 2mm).

The cuts where the granite joins should be clean and filled with a resin type filler that complements the colour of the stone (with black this is easy).

It is generally obvious if something is not right, just run your eye over everything, check the overhangs on the kitchen units are all similar and make sure there are no scratches or unpleasant marks.

Critical but not unreasonable is where you're aiming to be, you're paying a premium price (not excessive) but the product needs to be spot on to justify the cost.

QTPie

Thank you

QTPie

Just an update....

Yes, they said that it was because of the width of the granite worktops and the cut outs (and likelihood of breaking). But they should have talked to me about it before templating....

As pointed out, the sinks will partially cover the joints. The joints should look a lot better once cleaned up and, if necessary, they will top up the filler.

The granite guys were putting in the kitchen worktop - which is looking great...

Thanks again
QT