Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

guppy

vivatifosi wrote: »

Hi abbotw

See what others say, but personally I wouldn't bother with a solicitor as you could end up running up costs that you have no need to incur. You started your case after mine and mine has only just been resolved too. Although you can see on the successes board that there are people who get an instant response and rebanding, this often isn't the way, as many people on this board will testify.

The issue is still moving forward, and this is a good thing. <snip>

Abbotw, I agree with everything said above too.

Paying through the nose to have a solicitor research what you can get for free on the internet is a bad way to save some cash! If it comes to it, the appeal process is designed so that you don't need to pay a solicitor (though a chartered surveyor might be nice if they weren't expensive too!).

If the VOA wrote at the end of June I don't think they are trying to fob you off. Unfortunately these things do take time, especially at the moment with all the media attention.

Wait until you get a reply to your query from the "superiors". If the reply is negative then decide what to do next.

In the meantime it might be worth finding any extra evidence to back up your case, so when the reply comes back you're ready to dispute it if necessary

Good luck!

simonp123

Interesting one here. Property was purchased in 2000 with a licence to drain under rail property. The terms of this licence were very onerous. In 2000 and 2002 the property flooded and, as a result the licence to drain was revoked.This left the property with no formal rights to drain waste and subject to flooding.

A valuation report was commissioned (using leading QS) and the valuation was put at £40 -£50k (market value £350k). I wrote to the local council tax office and appealed, this seemed to concern then and they asked for time to consult. They have now replied (5 months later)and stated that the licence and the flooding have no impact on the valuation of the property (despite the valuation report). They also state I have no right of appeal. Anyone had a similar case?

guppy

Hi Simon,

Not heard of anything similar, apart from a house with no planning permission at all. I'm not even sure I understand the exact circumstances affecting the property. Is it currently occupied? If so how is it drained at the moment? Is it a modern house or is this a long running problem?

Anyway, I can try explain the general principles...

First, I would ask the VOA to explain their reasoning. Are they claiming the drainage issue hasn't affected the market value despite what your surveyor says? Or are they just claiming that its something that can't be taken in to account in valuing the property for council tax?

There is some guidance on what should and shouldn't be taken in to account in council tax valuations in the VOA's "Council Tax Manual" here:

http://www.voa.gov.uk/instructions/chapters/council_tax/council_tax_man_pn/c-ct-man-pn1.htm#P202_11635

There is an assumption that properties are in "reasonable repair" but that's probably not relevant here.

Have a look at Section 4.1 Part (e) "Unlawful use of property". This might be relevant - "The law does not require an unlawful use of a property to be disregarded [from the valuation] "

I'm not a lawyer but I'd imagine draining your waste on to someone else's land without permission is illegal - tort of nuisance, maybe? If the property can only be used by doing this then I'd think this would make it very hard to sell. Same would apply if a house didn't have planning permission.

Based on the guidance notes, I can't see how the VOA can disregard this. But that's only my personal opinion...

Feel free to post more info or PM me.

Guppy

vivatifosi

Apologies to Maisie, Guppy and the longer standing posters if this is old news. I have found a tool which I wasn't aware of before where you can look up the aggregate band data for your local council. So you can see how many band a, b, c, d etc properties there are in an area and what percentage they are of the local stock. Could this be useful supplementary info?

It can be viewed at:

http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/datasetList.do;jsessionid=ac1f930bce64e562094d6e648969b0ae1351286c581.e38PbNqOa3qRe3uNa3eRaNaKc41ynknvrkLOlQzNp65In0?JSAllowed=true&Function=&%24ph=60&CurrentPageId=60&step=1&CurrentTreeIndex=-1&searchString=&datasetFamilyId=938&Next.x=14&Next.y=13&bhcp=1

caris

We contacted our local VOA through the web site after reading posts in this section, and found that our house was in band B and has been since 1993, however all properties below our house number are all in band A, the houses are all from the same construction - concrete block - and has such nobody owns them, they belong to the local housing authority. There are another 3 house above us and built of the same constructio, and then another 4 which are brick built, they are all in the same band as ours.

We have today received the following letters:

"Thank you for your proposal form dated 26-Jun-2007 asking for a change in the banding of your property. I enclose a notice outling why I am unable to accept it as a valid proposal to challenge the valuation band. The notice also explains your right of appleal against this decision.

However, I note your dissatisfaction with the banding of your property and will review it to make sure that it is fair and consistent. If you have any evidence that you would like me to consider as part of thos review please send it to me as soon as possible. I would be grateful if you would complete the enclosed questionnaire and retrun it to this office.

If, as a result of this review, your band is altered, I will send you a Notice of Alteration to the Valuation List. If I am satisfied that no alteration is appropriate I will inform you of my decision in writing. I would advise you that there is no right of appeal against my decision.

The billing authority shown above is responsible for the calculation of council tax bills and any query you have regarding your bill should be made to them.

If you have any further questions please contact ***** who will be happy to help you"

Listing Officer



"Thank you for your proposal to challenge the valuation band on your property.

It might be helpful if I begin by telling you that I can only accept your proposal as valid if certain legal requirements are met.

When council tax was introduced on 1 April 1993, everyone had until 30 November 1993 to challenge the valuation band of theur property. Since 1 December 1993, the oppurtunity to challenge your validation has been strictly limited by law. Please see the enclosed leaflet, which contains a summary of your rights of appeal. Further information can be found on Valuation Office Agency website.

Based on the information you have given me, I believe your proposal has not been validly made. I am required by law to send you my notice of opion and this letter is the "invalidilty notice" in respect of your proposal.

My reason for considering that your proposal has been invalidly made is that you are outside the statutory time limits.

If you do not agree with my decision you have four weeks from the date of receipt of this letter to appeal it. To do this you should write giving me reasons why you think your proposal is validly made. Please write"APPEAL AGAINS NOTICE OF INVAL PROPOSAL" AT TOP OF YOUR LETTER.

If, after considering your appeal, I form the view that your proposal is valid after all, I will let you know, withdraw the invalidity note and give consideration to your proposal.

Where we are unable to resolve the disagreement about validity between us will send the necessary details to the local Valuation Tribunal who will decide the matter. The tribunal will advise you of a date of the hearing which will be to deal specifically the validity of the proposal and not the correctness of the council tax band"

Listing Officer


What do we do next, and how do we find out about the value of the properties has none of the concrete block houses have ever been bought or sold, three of the brick built ones have been sold previously.

SORRY this is so long winded but I want to do it correctly, hope someone can help us out,

vivatifosi

Hi Simon,

The evidence of reduction in value that the surveyor has given you. Is this devaluation as a result of flooding to your property, or can it be shown wholly as a result of the withdrawal of drainage? If your property was prone to flooding prior to the AVD or possibly before you bought it (I'm not clear on the legal position on the latter date) then this can be argued to be already costed into the value and therefore there is not a material reduction as such.

If however, you are able to show that the loss in value is directly as a result of the withdrawal of drainage, or wholly as a combination of this and the more recent flooding that will not have been foreseen at the time of the AVD/your moving, then this can be argued as a material reduction, and I would be inclined to get a letter confirming this from your surveyor, and take the new letter back to the VOA. From you comments, it would seem that the Listings Officer is of the opinion that the flooding was a pre-existing condition.

In the event that the VOA says your appeal was made after the date and is therefore invalid, you can still appeal (there are lots of previous posts on this subject). As the following link will show, Valuation Tribunals DO disagree with Listing Officers, and overturn invalidity notices, even on cases that may seem less trivial than your own:

http://info.valuation-tribunals.gov.uk/decision_document.asp?appeal=/decision_documents/documents/ct_england/1805418470239c.htm

Further, if they find that you have failed to show that this was not a pre-existing problem that will already have been costed in, they may uphold the listing, even where the problem may be seen as even worse than yours:

http://info.valuation-tribunals.gov.uk/decision_document.asp?appeal=/decision_documents/documents/ct_england/3620381927154c.htm

This final link shows a successful appeal against flooding:

http://info.valuation-tribunals.gov.uk/decision_document.asp?appeal=/decision_documents/documents/ct_england/1330361342104c.htm

Hope these are helpful. Good luck!

Dribble_2

....and here's another useful link :

www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1156110

The VOA may tell you prices dropped in 1991 and didn't recover until as late as 1997.The downloads in XL sheet form available here contradict that argument. The local VOA may also say that these figures are too 'general' and that postcode values differ,but it's great to argue Government figures which THEY use when it suits them.

Cheers,all ! Dribble

Daisy_Bell

Do you own your house Carris? Is it an ex-Council house? If so, this could be the reason why you are in a higher band than the others. In any case, the mere fact that you are outside the six months time limit, you only have recourse to the 'Invalidity' Tribunal to explain why you left it so long to appeal. Nobody ever wins at these, as I have found, as I attended one last week. I have yet to learn of their decision, but I have been reliably informed that no one ever does win because of this law. The only hope you have, is through the Review that the VOA must carry out to ensure that their records are accurate. Give them all the evidence you can get to support your claim (there are enough Posts on this here) If however, the VOA do not agree with you, you have no further course of action. This six months rule is everything, unless your area is had something happen to it recently to drastically lower the 'Tone'!

caris

Daisy Bell

Thank you for replying, no we don't own our home, none of our neighbours who are in the same properties as ours own them, they are all owned by the housing association. We checked our banding and it was banded in 1993 as B, although the rest of the houses are still an A, we clicked on our address and looked at the history and it was originally put in band A, so we don't know why ours is different. All of the houses are exactly the same, built from the same materials pre-fab (sorry I put concrete block in previous post), and all the same size including the garden space. We have asked for an appeal on the grounds that they have a duty to maintain accurate ct list, and also requested that our banding should be looked at to get it the same as everone elses, we have provided evidence that all the properties are the same, just have to wait and see what happens.

Zebedeee

Two weeks ago, as many of you will know, we went to tribunal over our property. It went very well, although was rather more formal than I had been led to belive, and we were able to put our case across well. We have been on tenterhooks ever since, waiting for the postman to bring that letter.

Any comments from those of you out there who know what is going on here would be most gratefully recieved.

Thank you all.

Zebedee