Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

Maisie

Keith has posted on the 'Success' thread. Says he's had a rebanding and rebate AND interest.

An interesting post.

Maisie

bill2b wrote: »

It would seem so, not even 1 reply to my postings, ho hum best go it alone then !!

bill2b. Post again . We're on a different page and your post has slipped away.

You don't have to go it alone. This is a very helpful and friendly thread and we all try to assist others. Have you helped yourself a bit by looking at the previous posts?. Most of the answers to queries are on the back pages.

I'll look out for it if you post again.

HTH Maisie

Mark-W_2

Bill2b,

Sorry nobody replied to your post.

When was your house built?

Just to clarify in most areas of the UK prices fell from 1990 onwards (there was a slight recovery in late 1991/92 in my area), they only returned to 1991 levels in early 1997.
So the VOA are justified to say that your purchase price in 1997 was roughly equal to 1991, the fact that you purchased it for £52,000 in 1997 would make you very very borderline. So you should have a case.

The VOA and VTS do not take the House price valuation calculators as that accurate, as they only report a regional trend when infact one street to the next can have a 10% variation in price quite easily.

What you need to do is get information on at least 5 properties in you close vicinity, not just your street, look at RightMove to see what is currently for sale.
If you can show that very similar houses, just around the corner are band B then this will add weight to your case.
The fact that nobody else has disputed their banding may mean that they are totally unaware that it is possible, it may be worth speaking to a few of them, if you can get a couple of people to raise cases then it would add weight to your case.

I have no idea if you can appeal, but I would assume so as they have a duty to keep the records accurate.

Have you spoken to the VOA officer since your last post?


Zebedee, yeah hopefully are cases will have helped each other.
Fingers Crossed J

vivatifosi

Hi Bill,

Here's some additional info that you may find useful in addition to what Mark-W has said.

If your house was built in 1997, house prices for new houses did not always fall from 1991 as dramatically as for existing houses. This is because housebuilders offered incentives to keep house prices high. This was written about by the RICS and addressed by a conference by them in 1999. You can find the documentation relating to this at
http://www.rics.org/NR/rdonlyres/AEE28EFA-EBD5-4C2C-8679-1FC5E65A89D7/0/whose_house_is_it_anyway_19990101.pdf

I used similar information as part of my tribunal, backed up with house prices from a similar estate to mine, that was built at the same time as the bands were set: 1 April 1991.

In addition, go back through the local paper to 1997 and look for adverts relating to your home, also check your sale paperwork. If any of the following apply, you can discount these from the initial sale price, or challenge the VOA to prove that they were discounted at the time of initial valuation:

* Non-fitted white goods were included in the price.
* Carpets, curtains or any non-fixed furniture items were included in the price.
* Incentives such as vouchers for furniture were included.
* Service incentives such as legal fees paid were included.
* You have a garage that is in a block that is not attached to the grounds of your house. If your garage is not considered part of your curtilage it is not included for the purpose of council tax and can be discounted from its value.

Hope this helps!

guppy

grace21 wrote: »

Hi Rooster,
Guppy is right he gave me some good advice on this thread on the 24/04/07. I'm in the same position as you!! My council is refusing to back date my refund to the 1993.
Please feel free to read my story!!!

Guppy you will be pleased to hear that I'm giving them a run for their money!! I've taken my complaint to the next level in my local council and they have been seeking even MORE legal advice...I'm sure it would be more cost effective for them to just give me the money that they owe me.
What has been a surprise is that no-one has taken this complaint to this level before....I will keep you posted!!
I have checked out what to do if this fails and have contacted the Local Government Ombudsman who are willing to take this up on my behalf if needed.
Grace

Hi Grace,

Glad you haven't given up. If the council say no, try complaining to the VOA and asking them to pay you the money. I'm not sure you'd get it, but they might convince the council to pay.

Still don't understand how some council's refuse to pay though...once the band has been found wrong - its your money! They can't just keep it! :mad:

Sorry, was I ranting again?! Good luck anyway

P.S. If they do come back with any proper legal advice, I'd be interested to hear what they say.

guppy

bill2b wrote: »

I just got a letter from the VOA rejecting my claim to be rebanded !
It also states at the bottom I have no right to appeal!!

My House is currently Band "C" so £52,001 to £68 k in 1991!

I bought thie house in 1997 6 plus years later for £52,000

Todays letter makes no mention of this and also mentions the internet valuation things are not accurate!

He does mention that all the other 11 properties in my street are also band C and nobody has desputed this so far.

Any suggestions what to do now?
He is apparently phoning me back tomorrow (Friday)

Hello Bill,

Sorry I missed your post too. I'd agree with everything Mark said. And I love vivatifosi's cunning plan to shave a few grand off the VOA's sales prices by discounting the fittings.

I'd suggest phoning up the person that dealt with your appeal as a first step. Have all your arguments ready and ask them what evidence they used for their decision. They can't tell you specific addresses, but they can generalise. Was the evidence from 1991? Was it from the same street or somewhere nearby? Maybe somewhere more expensive?.

If its borderline they might have a hard time justifying the banding to you. £52k in 1997 certainly sounds borderline, but then its a long way from 1991. Worst case scenario is if the VOA has got good 1991 evidence of an identical house in your street.

Are the other 11 houses identical to yours? If they're bigger/more expensive that's good. If they're identical, you're going to have an uphill struggle. Its a lot harder for the VOA to justify something if its inconsistent and they won't want to reduce 12 bands.

If you decide to go for it, take your time getting your evidence together. Once the VOA have said no the first/second time round - evidence becomes everything! You basically have to change their mind for them.

As others on the thread will tell you, its very hard work, but if you can make a compelling case that the property was worth less at 1991 they will reduce it. You could do worse than reading back through this thread. Pretty much everything is covered now.

Best of luck, Guppy

happy_helper_2

having a tribunal on friday 29/06 i have a good fact based argument and as many of you guys the voa have help me with the comparibles in my opinion however if the tribunal side with the voa my question is where do you go from there? is there any ombudsman type place

guppy

happy_helper wrote: »

having a tribunal on friday 29/06 i have a good fact based argument and as many of you guys the voa have help me with the comparibles in my opinion however if the tribunal side with the voa my question is where do you go from there? is there any ombudsman type place

Hello happy,

I believe you can appeal from the Valuation Tribunal to the High Court, but only on a point of law. Only the Tribunal members can determine the facts of the case and decide the value of the property, based on the evidence they have in front of them.

There will be three of them, plus a professional Clerk, so you're not relying on one person's opinion. Needless to say they're completely independent.

Obviously if you think the VOA or the VTS have acted improperly you should complain via the relevant procedures, but in terms of getting your band reduced everything comes down to persuading the panel members you are right.

Best of luck with your hearing.

P.S. If you're not 100% happy with your case yet, just ask the VTS to postpone your hearing until you're ready

MinMoz

Hi All,

Not good news from my appeal unfortunately - it was rejected.

Looks like the panel had no option but to reject on the grounds of the law that is laid out before them with regards the 6 month ruling. Guess I just wasnt organised enough on the day, which is not the case with you guys by the sound of it!

In fairness to the panel secretary the reply was personalised and did refer to my arguments.

I do seem to have gone too far through the process tho. It was only when I did more detailed investigation into my houses position in relation to my neighbours that I realised that I should have been deliberating more with the assessors and asking why 41 houses in my street with 1 extra bedroom and bathroom were banded below me in '93!?

Apologies if this is not the most encouraging of posts but it does appear that the process varies throughout the regions so hopefully you (Zebedeee and Mark W) are a lot more successful.

My fingers are crossed for you guys.

MinMoz

ps - would it be wrong to get back on the backs of the assessors again?? :think:

guppy

MinMoz wrote: »

Hi All,

Not good news from my appeal unfortunately - it was rejected.

Looks like the panel had no option but to reject on the grounds of the law that is laid out before them with regards the 6 month ruling. Guess I just wasnt organised enough on the day, which is not the case with you guys by the sound of it!

In fairness to the panel secretary the reply was personalised and did refer to my arguments.

I do seem to have gone too far through the process tho. It was only when I did more detailed investigation into my houses position in relation to my neighbours that I realised that I should have been deliberating more with the assessors and asking why 41 houses in my street with 1 extra bedroom and bathroom were banded below me in '93!?

Apologies if this is not the most encouraging of posts but it does appear that the process varies throughout the regions so hopefully you (Zebedeee and Mark W) are a lot more successful.

My fingers are crossed for you guys.

MinMoz

ps - would it be wrong to get back on the backs of the assessors again?? :think:

Sorry to hear that MinMoz. I wouldn't worry about not being prepared though, there's not much you can do about the six month rule. In that case the Tribunal can't even look at the value.

The "good" news is since the Tribunal didn't look at the value, its still open to question. The assessors obviously believe your band is right, but they still have a duty to consider any evidence that you think shows otherwise.

At the very least, you're entitled to an explanation of why they believe the band is right.