Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area

Maisie

guppy wrote: »

Hi Rooster,

I did have a rant about this before but I can't find it. For what its worth I don't think the councils that refuse to pay back to 1993 have any legal right to refuse to pay out. All of the councils I am familiar with do. In my opinion, your council is "trying it on", paying out lots of refunds messes up their finances for the year.

I'm not sure the County Court will be keen to get involved, but you've probably got nothing to lose. It might prod the council in to action too.

I'm not a lawyer but as I understand it the statute of limitations for debts is six years. I don't see how this applies here. I would ask your council exactly which law they are relying on.

The "debt" they owe you only came in to existence when the VOA changed your band, i.e. the date on the notice they sent you. Even if your band was too high since 1993, it was still the band the law says you had to pay for - until the VOA altered it. If you'd tried paying less before you got that notice, you'd be the one in court!

If you can't get any sense out of the council, write to the VOA and complain. Even if the council doesn't have to give your money back, the VOA may be liable to compensate you since may be their fault you are out of pocket.

The "council tax list" from 1993 is still in force and the VOA amend it regularly. If the VOA amend it to 1993, 1994 or any other date, that's the date that that the band is effective from.

I think someone else on the successes board said they complained to the VOA which prompted the council to pay up. Don't be put off too easy.

Good luck.

P.S. Zebedee and MarkW - Best of luck with your tribunals!

Guppy. Page 30 #1197 might help.

Zebedeee

Mark-W wrote: »

i had my tribunal on thursday and it seemed to go reasonably well.
The VTS panel were impressed with the sheer level of evidence i had, 60pages with 22 similar properties in comparison.

The VTS didnt have time to go through 10% of my evidence so were going away to read through it properly.
Hopefully they will agree with my evidence as it was far stronger than the voa's evidence.

Just out of interest, how did you get to be able to present 22 properties in comparison? You're not allowed to use more than the VOA use in their evidence and that is a maximum of ten! Just fascinated to know how it all went.

Like you, we were not short of facts and figures, although whether that translates into a win we've yet to find out. Here's hoping! I'll let you all know the result.

Zebedee

Zebedeee

Youngy wrote: »

This is a little worrying. We followed Martin's info and found 2 neighbours with larger detached properties were in band G. We are a semi in band G, have lived here since prior to 1991. We live in a small village where the houses are all individual. We appealed on the grounds these 2 neighbours are in lower band G (1 of which is a larger new build detached) and have been told no grounds for appeal, have since carried on following it through and this week received a letter from the VTS confirming the appeal is registered, and that they aim to list the appeal for hearing within the next 6 months.

I am hoping these neighbours in lower band, especially the new build which must have been recently banded, are grounds enough for appeal. What other information can I use to support my claim? Seems quite difficult when the neighbours houses are all different. Obviously we are currently in the highest band and stand to make quite a saving/refund so am anxious to aid the process as much as possible.

Thanks for any help you can offer

That sounds like quite good evidence. What you need to do is ask the VOA for details of the properties you plan to use as evidence, eg size in m², selling prices, etc (you can have a maximum of ten) and compile an 'information pack' for the tribunal. If you can (sneakily!) take pictures of the properties so the panel members can actually see what you are talking about it helps. Then you'll need a summary of your arguments for your proposal for a rebanding. This all has to be submitted to the VOA in advance of your tribunal, but they also have to give you all their evidence too. Hopefully, the VOA will see you have such a good case that they don't want to bother fighting it and they could back down just before the date, but sadly they don't always and you have to go through with it.

The main thing is, be well prepared and sure of your arguements.

Hope that helps!

Zebedee

guppy

antonduvall wrote: »

I've just received a letter from my Council's Assessors saying my band has been reduced from C to B. But there's no other info on the letter about refunds, etc

The 'effictive date' of the rebanding is Feb 2007...? I had hoped this would have been Feb 2002, when I bought the property....

Can anyone advise what I should do next to claim a backdate? I'm in Scotland, if that makes a difference.

Hello,

Best to check with the assessors first to make sure they haven't made a mistake, and if not, have them explain. Normally if an original valuation is found to be wrong the band must be changed back to when the house was originally banded (e.g. 1993).

One exception might be if the band has been reduced due to a negative change in the area since 1993 (i.e. new sewage works built nearby etc.). In that case it will only be backdated to the date of the change.

If they won't backdate it, the notice they sent you entitles you to make a formal appeal against the date within the next six months.

This is different from a council refusing to backdate the money simply because they feel like it. The assessor's decision must be related to the value of the house in some way.

Hope that makes sense

Guppy

Mark-W_2

vivatifosi, congratulations :beer: didnt notice your post earlier

zebedee,

when i say 22 properties this was due to the fact that the voa used 11 properties (3 of which were band c), so i was able to ask for another 11.
I also had my own comparison of 11 properties currently for sale that i believed were comparable, they were all 3 bed detached band c within 1/2 a mile.
so really the voa had 6 band D (exculding mine) and i had 25 band C's.
on my documentation it didnt mention a max of 10 properties.
(strangely enough they listed 9 properties on the schedule of documents,then used 11. so i rang to confirm how many i was allowed to ask for details of an was told 11).

vivatifosi

Hi Zebedee,

Like Mark, I was also able to reference more properties. My understanding is that you are only able to request from the VOA information on the same number of properties as they use against you.

However, as my house was new at the time of its initial banding, I was able to go back through the local papers and see what they were selling others for (the plots were named with the prices and the incentives offered so I took those and checked them against the site plan to get the house addresses). So I was able to use their six plus my six, plus the other houses that I found.

I then referenced this against a separate estate which was under construction with similar houses the same time as the AVD date (the 1st April 1991 - the date against which all house prices are set). Although I didn't have the size of these properties, again as they were new I had their price and using the 2000 onwards data was able to trend those property prices against recent prices in my street to show similarities. So although their six and my six were my primary evidence, this was all valuable secondary evidence which was found compelling by the panel and mentioned in their reasons for allowing me the rebanding.

Zebedeee

Mark-W, it sounds like you and I are fighting the same battle! Like you, I found the evidence the VOA used to be helpful to me too, and I am in a band D 3 bed house, etc! I'm beginning to think we might be living around the corner from each other!

As we were both before the same tribunal on the same day, maybe our evidence will even have helped each other.

Lets hope we both win:)

Zebedee

vivatifosi

Hi Maisie,

Hope you don't mind me asking, but what's the latest state of play with your appeal. I know that you said it's been going on for ages. As you've helped all of us can't we bang our collective heads together and see if we can't pool our knowledge to help you? Its the least we can do for the money you've saved us!

grace21

guppy wrote: »

Hi Rooster,

I did have a rant about this before but I can't find it. For what its worth I don't think the councils that refuse to pay back to 1993 have any legal right to refuse to pay out. All of the councils I am familiar with do. In my opinion, your council is "trying it on", paying out lots of refunds messes up their finances for the year.

I'm not sure the County Court will be keen to get involved, but you've probably got nothing to lose. It might prod the council in to action too.

I'm not a lawyer but as I understand it the statute of limitations for debts is six years. I don't see how this applies here. I would ask your council exactly which law they are relying on.

The "debt" they owe you only came in to existence when the VOA changed your band, i.e. the date on the notice they sent you. Even if your band was too high since 1993, it was still the band the law says you had to pay for - until the VOA altered it. If you'd tried paying less before you got that notice, you'd be the one in court!

If you can't get any sense out of the council, write to the VOA and complain. Even if the council doesn't have to give your money back, the VOA may be liable to compensate you since may be their fault you are out of pocket.

The "council tax list" from 1993 is still in force and the VOA amend it regularly. If the VOA amend it to 1993, 1994 or any other date, that's the date that that the band is effective from.

I think someone else on the successes board said they complained to the VOA which prompted the council to pay up. Don't be put off too easy.

Good luck.

P.S. Zebedee and MarkW - Best of luck with your tribunals!

Hi Rooster,
Guppy is right he gave me some good advice on this thread on the 24/04/07. I'm in the same position as you!! My council is refusing to back date my refund to the 1993.
Please feel free to read my story!!!

Guppy you will be pleased to hear that I'm giving them a run for their money!! I've taken my complaint to the next level in my local council and they have been seeking even MORE legal advice...I'm sure it would be more cost effective for them to just give me the money that they owe me.
What has been a surprise is that no-one has taken this complaint to this level before....I will keep you posted!!
I have checked out what to do if this fails and have contacted the Local Government Ombudsman who are willing to take this up on my behalf if needed.
Grace

bill2b

It would seem so, not even 1 reply to my postings, ho hum best go it alone then !!