First Direct - 3 serious complaints arising out of one maturing Regular Saver!!!

2sides2everystory

I thought I answered that. The perspective is broad, VT82. So I can plan my day tomorrow, what kind of aneurism had you in mind for me? :j

anselld

2sides2everystory wrote: »

If a bank wants to join in this game of high headline rates for a short period and then dropping the rate off a cliff, then it should be exceedingly careful not to mislead customers at any time about what the rate is.

This is not a headline grabbing promotional rate. It is just a regular saver, same as all other regular savers; completely different product to a long term savings account with promotional rate.

Have you had a better regular saver somewhere else then?

2sides2everystory

Not a headline grabbling promotional rate?? Why is it limited to a paltry £300 per month then? (Please don't try telling me it is only designed specially for darling "new" savers who really can't manage any more than that )

In answer to your last question yes, as it happens, over an almost exactly similar period and their end of year statement did not attempt to mislead me by headlining any rate, but as I said, my complaints are nothing to do with the T&Cs of the particular account, they are to do with apparently systemic provision of misleading information and advice at and just beyond the "maturity" date.

LongTermLurker

2sides2everystory wrote: »

1) The quoting of a wildly exaggerated Credit Interest Rate with the implication that it is correct going forward. The quoted rate was 20x the actual rate.

Now I'm confused. You said

Today I received a Statement for "3 October 2009 to 3 October 2010" - £77.79 net interest was shown. Still no complaint - but read on ...
...
Credit Interest Rates balance AER variable
Credit Interest 5.00%

So are you saying the maturity date was 3/10/10? If so, how does it look like the rate quoted is for deposits beyond that date?

And as to the interest rate and the common misconception that a month's deposit (in September) will earn a year's interest, do you see those 3 letters "AER"? Well that A stands for "annual", which means "if you deposit money for a year we will pay 5% interest" - but clearly you only deposited £300 for a year; you deposited another £300 for 11 months... £300 for 6 months... and in September you added your final £300 and asked for it back just over a month later. So the sum of what they pay is pro-rata

The rate is accurate; it's not even a lack of understanding or knowledge, it's a lack of thinking (sorry, I'm not aiming to be rude, it's just that so many people make this same common sense mistake that I just want to bang my head against the wall and shout WIBBLE!)

:wall:

2sides2everystory

The start date was 3/10/2010. The maturity date was I guess midnight on 2/10/2010, because I have thus far received no interest for 3/10/2010 or later. The £77.79 amount was shown as NET INTEREST TO 02OCT2010 and I have no dispute with it.

The statement was headed 3 October 2009 to 3 October 2010.

The last thing heading on the statement was "Credit Interest 5%". By 3/10/2010 it wasn't, it was 0.25%. No mention of that.

It is not what this thread is about but regarding your paragraph about interest: let me just point out that it isn't very accurate. Probably worth an A* at GCSE thesedays, but inaccurate. Nothing is pro-rata about the way compound interest is calculated.

Even if you aimed to be rude, you failed. I know what you might mean about the head-banging feeling.

masonic

2sides2everystory wrote: »

The statement was headed 3 October 2009 to 3 October 2010.

The last thing heading on the statement was "Credit Interest 5%". By 3/10/2010 it wasn't, it was 0.25%. No mention of that.

The statement was produced on the 3rd October 2010. At the time the statement was produced, you were earning interest at the 5% rate. It was earned between 3rd October 2009 and 2nd October 2010 and paid on 3rd October 2010. The 0.25% interest rate only began to apply to your closing balance at the end of the 3rd October 2010, which was presumably some time after the statement was produced.

2sides2everystory

At the time the statement was produced, you were earning interest at the 5% rate.

It was earned between 3rd October 2009 and 2nd October 2010 and paid on 3rd October 2010.

... er ... but you said I was earning it at 5% on the day the statement was produced ... which was 3 October 2010? So do they owe me a day's interest at 5% because I haven't received it, or have I? I think I have, I think that quite definitely, they stopped paying me interest at 5% on the day before they produced the 3 October 2010 statement.

The 0.25% interest rate only began to apply to your closing balance at the end of the 3rd October 2010, which was presumably some time after the statement was produced.

... presumably?? Ah, I see, so they stopped paying me at 5% at close of business on 2/10/2010 but they didn't start paying me at 0.25% until close of business 3/10/2010. They very craftily printed the statement between these two points in time .... why didn't I think of that? :rotfl:

What's your middle name? ... FreDerick?

masonic

2sides2everystory wrote: »

... er ... but you said I was earning it at 5% on the day the statement was produced ... which was 3 October 2010? So do they owe me a day's interest at 5% because I haven't received it, or have I? I think I have, I think that quite definitely, they stopped paying me interest at 5% on the day before they produced the 3 October 2010 statement.

Even though you seemed to throw your toys out of the pram in response to LongTimeLurker's post, I thought I'd give you the benefit of the doubt, but you are clearly here to rant and not take in any points us calm, rational posters are making.

What you are missing is that there are 24 hours that could elapse between two events that happen on the same date. Your statement was produced on the same date the rate changed. Your last clue is that interest is calculated on the balance at the end of each day, so unless you believe your Regular Saver account was still open at the end of the 3rd October 2010 (contrary to the accounts T&Cs, which state it is converted into an Everyday e-Saver or Savings Account at maturity), then you will never receive any interest calculated at anything other than 5% in your Regular Saver providing you fulfilled its funding requirements, which you claim to have done. Why on earth would you expect them to print an interest rate for your new instant access savings account on your Regular Saver statement? Hmmm?

... presumably?? Ah, I see, so they stopped paying me at 5% at close of business on 2/10/2010 but they didn't start paying me at 0.25% until close of business 3/10/2010. They very craftily printed the statement between these two points in time .... why didn't I think of that? :rotfl:

Yes, they printed the statement at the time the account was closed and the account then matured into a different savings account with a rate of 0.25%. Don't sweat it. We all miss things sometimes. Don't feel too embarrassed.

What's your middle name? ... FreDerick?

Name-calling is so childish. Though you don't need to have an affiliation with FD to understand this problem. You just need some common sense.

2sides2everystory

So I take it masonic, that you do see the problem, because you call it a problem, but then you immediately forgive it, because it is your wont so to do? Is that correct?

It is on the other hand, my wont is to flag up unacceptable banking practice when I see it.

I am not sure what Longterm Lurker was trying to say because clearly he/she was off topic and was on some kind of pro-rata trip.

Yes, they printed the statement at the time the account was closed and the account then matured into a different savings account with a rate of 0.25%. Don't sweat it. We all miss things sometimes. Don't feel too embarrassed.

Why would I be embarassed? I have missed nothing. The Regular Saving account was still open when I logged in online on 7/10/2010 and if you read my complaints you would see that the painfully slow-grinding conversion process at "maturity" was expected to take more days. So I would be interested to know (since this conversion malarkey gives s0d all benefit to us punters) (a) why FD and other banks think it is necessary, and (b) why it takes 5 working days when their computers are capable of making it instantaneous, and (c) how exactly they account for the balances and interest during those 5 days if the old account is accounted online as having a balance 4 days after it is supposed to have "closed" if you are right, and the new account is set up retrospectively. I can imagine all kinds of creative accounts could be made internally from such. Of course contrary to what you seem to be saying you would expect, masonic, the account number remains the same. Why else would you say so condescendingly:

Why on earth would you expect them to print an interest rate for your new instant access savings account on your Regular Saver statement? Hmmm?

Might the answer be that it is the same account? And incidentally it was always instant access.

Let me be plain - Printing a headline that says Credit Interest 5% on a statement issued on a date when interest has already dropped to 0.25% is a deception. How do you like that assertion? Do you disagree or do you wish to continue to split hairs / dates / accounts?



Let me tell you what would have been useful: (I recommend it to First Direct - perhaps you might pass it on for me):

1. The NET INTEREST transaction details could have said NET INTEREST TO 02OCT2010 @ 4% (WAS 5% GROSS)
2. The headline on the second page if it needed to be there at all could have said CREDIT INTEREST AER 5% GROSS VARIABLE TO 02OCT2010 NOW REDUCED TO 0.25% PENDING CONVERSION TO EVERYDAY E-SAVER OR SAVINGS ACCOUNT
3. Better still they could make the conversion instantaneous with the issue of the statement and change the word PENDING to UPON.

Now is that not common sense, or is that more childishness in your book?

Andystriker

I would suggest that you take your business away from First Direct. They do not deserve a customer like you.

Santander or Alliance & Leicester is my recommendation.