root canal treatment - NHS and private costs & pros and cons

Bf109

Pennylane wrote: »

I was also surprised to learn that dentists average NHS wage is £96,000 p.a.!! I knew it was a well-paid profession but didn't realise it was this much!;)

Hey, golf is an expensive hobby!

mrs_angry

silverfoxuk wrote: »

Sky News has been running a report on NHS dentists turning away people who need root canal treatment, even though they are NHS dentists under contract to treat this condition. Kind of fits in with what many on the board have been saying about NHS vs Private for Root Canal (and Toothsmith has been explaining why this might happen). The report is here

Sky News: Dentists Defying the NHS
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Health/Sky-News-Undercover-Report-Finds-Some-Dentists-Refuse-To-Offer-Complex-Treatment-On-NHS/Article/200810415128790?lpos=Health_First_Health_Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15128790_Sky_News_Undercover_Report_Finds_Some_Dentists_Refuse_To_Offer_Complex_Treatment_On_NHS

you are right i have just read and watched this article and this is going on in my nhs practice, and in many others.i know that many dentists will disagree with the article, stating that on the nhs they are underpaid and overworked, but in my view if that is the case why be an nhs dentist?,just turn private, because having an nhs dentist who wont do work is just as bad as not having one at all.

many Nhs dentists are defying the new contract, and that means that in the year 2008 more people are having their teeth pulled, rather than more complex treatments to save the teeth. funny really because on the old contract they did do root canals, then once the new contract appeared dentists suddenly were not qualified to do root canals, and specialists are needed. the thing is dentists cant have it all ways, they just need to be honest with patients and say look we are not paid enough to do this work on the nhs, so if you want to save your teeth you will have to pay!

i think alot more under cover work is needed to root out(excuse the pun) the bad nhs dentists, and alot more people need to report the bad dentists in their area. if enough people report then we may be able to sort out the terrible state of nhs dentistry today.

Toothsmith

Pennylane wrote: »

Apologies in advance - haven't read all this thread but saw the title and thought I'd add this.

It was on the news tonight that some NHS dentists are telling patients that they have to pay privately for expensive treatments like root canal.

They did secret filming and gave the evidence to one of the top guys at the NHS and he said this is WRONG and would be investigating and its part of their NHS contract to DO this work.

I was also surprised to learn that dentists average NHS wage is £96,000 p.a.!! I knew it was a well-paid profession but didn't realise it was this much!;)

With 3 - 4 decent 'A' levels, 5 years at University, a few years in other people's practices before borrowing a few hundred thousand pounds and setting up on your own- and you to could have all that. Surprises me that more people don't!

That Sky report really didn't show dentistry in a good light.

Someone with 12 missing teeth and an abscess SHOULDN'T be offered advanced work on the NHS, but neither should they be offered it privately!!

Someone like that shouldbe stabalized for a good couple of years and be able to show an improvement in how they look after their teeth before anbodies money - taxpayers or patient's own - is used to rebuild anything.

It's easily possible to do simple treatments to restore function and prevent pain without leaping in with the heavy engineering.

Toothsmith

mrs_angry wrote: »

you are right i have just read and watched this article and this is going on in my nhs practice, and in many others.i know that many dentists will disagree with the article, stating that on the nhs they are underpaid and overworked, but in my view if that is the case why be an nhs dentist?,just turn private, because having an nhs dentist who wont do work is just as bad as not having one at all

many Nhs dentists are defying the new contract, and that means that in the year 2008 more people are having their teeth pulled, rather than more complex treatments to save the teeth.

i think alot more under cover work is needed to root out(excuse the pun) the bad nhs dentists, and alot more people need to report the bad dentists in their area. if enough people report then we may be able to sort out the terrible state of nhs dentistry today.

I entirely agree!

Olympika

This is me being pushy I guess, but could one of the lovely dentists give me some advice? I originally posted this a couple of days ago. Thanks so much in advance.

Toothsmith can I ask you something? The extraction site from the failed RC is still quite 'holey' and it is pretty big as the roots were so big. The problem is I am now having increasing sensitivity and aching from the teeth either side, specifically the two surrounding tooth faces, where the gum is still very indented. I had normal check up and hygienist appointments recently and both noticed that parts of these teeth which shouldn't be exposed were (the dentine?)... Basically my question is what happens now? Will the gum 'grow back' upwards? (my guess is no ) and what is the long term prognosis for these two teeth likely to be if the gum doesn't cover the tender bits again?

Ok, one more thing...:D I have also chipped a white filling on upper right 3 (I think from having to eat more on that side still), this is the 3rd time this has happened, am I right in thinking the dentist takes a little bit of tooth off everytime this filling gets redone (in order to make a good site for the filling to stick to)? In which case is there any other way of dealing with this tooth long-term as it would seem that the fillings are going to keep coming off - am I going to have any tooth left to fill?

Toothsmith

You need to ask your own dentist this. There are too many possibilities to discuss accurately.

Olympika

Ok thanks, will do.

tirednewdad

Olympika wrote: »

This is me being pushy I guess, but could one of the lovely dentists give me some advice? I originally posted this a couple of days ago. Thanks so much in advance.

The extraction site does take upto 28 days to completely heal. Your bone levels will alter and eventually even out over the time (this is different for person to person but generally 6 months the majority of bone levels changes are done) - don't panis these changes occur in mm.
When you do have teeth removed the bone level reduces. By the sounds of it in you it has exposed the cementum (similar to dentine) and made it sensitive. This will reduce over time and use of a sensitive toothpaste will help things along. The gum is unlikely to regrow back to normal levels

Can't answer your other question without seeing you. Sometimes a crown can be used to give a filling some strength but this would involve taking away potentailly more tooth tissue.

Olympika

Thanks tirednewdad, much appreciated

silvercar

Originally Posted by silverfoxuk
Sky News has been running a report on NHS dentists turning away people who need root canal treatment, even though they are NHS dentists under contract to treat this condition. Kind of fits in with what many on the board have been saying about NHS vs Private for Root Canal (and Toothsmith has been explaining why this might happen). The report is here

Sky News: Dentists Defying the NHS
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Hea...eatment_On_NHS

I'm in two minds on this.

On the one hand, if a dentist offers NHS then he should be offering the most appropriate treatment including root canals and crowns. Those are the rules so life is straightforward.

If all NHS dentists were forced into doing this, the net effect would be less NHS dentists. So more people can't find an NHS dentist and, unable to afford private dental work, would end up with no dentist. So what do people want? An NHS dentist that reserves the right to refuse certain treatment or an NHS dentist for most of their care, in the knowledge that certain treatments are only available elsewhere or privately? I know that currently some NHS dentists are breakling the rules but what do we want as individuals? To know there is an NHS dentist able to see us and (mostly) sort our dental care or no NHS dentists?

I know dentists earn a lot but they have put themselves through a lot of training, have a lot of expenses and run all the risks associated with running a business. So I haven't got a problem with the earnings quoted, I'm not sure I have a problem with a dentist saying they will do NHS work but not RCTs or crowns. (The end result of which would be no NHS dentists and a lot of people having no dentist.) The problem I think I have is with the dishonesty (if I can use such a strong word) of claiming to offer a full menu of treatments but in fact not doing so.

(Hypothetically as I see my dentist privately.) If I'm sitting in a dentist's chair and told that a tooth needs extracting, I would want to know that that is the best option, not to be thinking does he mean he could do an RCT if I would pay. (Or worse, he dare not suggest me having an RCT in case a complaint is made to the PCT.)