Penalty Fare Notice for a child on a bus

Stigy

Stigy wrote: »

Sorry, forgot we were talking about a minor here! I suppose there's a duty of care on TfL's part...

Actually, I've just been thinking about the above. I doubt there would be a duty of care, as the minor is not a customer of the bus company, as he would be if he was travelling on it, found to have no ticket and subsequently asked to leave the bus. So, I change my response, lol.

Livingthedream

Stigy, doesn't a bus driver have duty of care over all of his passengers, whether minor or not. Therefore, TfL as his employer inherit these responsibilities?

Sorry if this takes the thread off track

Stigy

Livingthedream wrote: »

Stigy, doesn't a bus driver have duty of care over all of his passengers, whether minor or not. Therefore, TfL as his employer inherit these responsibilities?

Sorry if this takes the thread off track

Yes, but the minor in question isn't his passenger as he never boarded the bus...Hypothetically speaking of course...

Livingthedream

Thanks stigy, I think I understand what your on about. But having done some digging;

joanneinuk wrote: »

But if that is the case then surely they can't have it both ways, will let child on the bus but may fine the parent? Seems unfair to me. My son did not beg or plead with the bus driver to let him on, he fumbled around, checking his pockets for his wallet, couldn't find it and the driver ushered him on whilst the bus was still stationary.

An appeal will most probably fail as the 'driver will say he acknowledged an oyster card payment', it's a load of rubbish but gets the driver off the hook.

joanneinuk wrote: »

Another thought is, is it for me to prove that the didn't issue the PFN or for them to prove they did? There are cameras on the buses which would prove my son's case.

Non-issue of a PFN could be worth a shot, however, TfL will say the OP ditch it. As to CCTV, couldn't find any info on how long they keep these for.

joanneinuk wrote: »

With parking tickets I understand that they have to prove they put the notice on the car (hence them taking pictures of the ticket on the car), not sure if the same applies to these type of fines.

Don't think that would work, but happy to be proved wrong.

Right hopefully Stigy could confirm this one, as IIRC TfL have slightly different rules to the Railways, but

As I said before a Penalty fare is a civil debt and in issuing a Penalty fare the RPI acknowledges that you are not a 'fare dodger' so this will always be settled in a small claims court and not a criminal court.

1. Appeal on the grounds of a failure by the operator to run its Penalty fare scheme correctly as you son was allowed to travel on the bus with no payment and there has been a lack of discretion by Revenue Protection staff, as you son explained to the RPI 'he told the driver he had no fare and the driver waved him onto the bus'.
2. If the appeal fails and there's a good chance it will, challenge it again but this time explain that you feel so strongly about this that you are willing to fight this in a court of law.

There is a chance that they will call your bluff because that's basically what your doing so if you want nothing to do with a small claims court don't do 2 and pay the Penalty fare.