Child benefit to be scrapped for higher rate tax payers from 2013

ninky_2

lostinrates wrote: »

OK, this post from ninky really filled in a gap in the logic for me. Thank you ninky.

eta: of course people with out children and on whatever wage still have housework etc to do....

i'm surprised the condems haven't made it themselves. it's coming to something when i have to fill in the gaps in logic for tory party policies!:D

tyllwyd

ninky wrote: »

i disagree. you are completely ignoring the need for the domestic work (childcare, housework) to be carried out. if both parents are working they will need to pay for this and/or lose considerable amounts of leisure time. ...

Why does the argument always assume that this only affects a household with one working parent and one stay at home? My OH earns just over the threshold and I earn well under, so we will lose CB. But if we had the same income but he earned slightly less and I earned slightly more, we'd keep it. We still have the same childcare/housework/leisure time issues as any other household with two working parents - why treat us differently because the split is uneven?

StevieJ

ninky wrote: »

i'm surprised the condems haven't made it themselves. it's coming to something when i have to fill in the gaps in logic for tory party policies!:D

I think as LIR alluded to, why should child benefit have to compensate for doing the housework? Childcare yes and this could be included in a increased figure for joint (above HR rate) to compensate.

i disagree. you are completely ignoring the need for the domestic work

lostinrates

StevieJ wrote: »

I think as LIR alluded to, why should child benefit have to compensate for doing the housework? Childcare yes and this could be included in a increased figure for joint (above HR rate) to compensate.

I guess its hard to separate the two for a full time SAHP. e.g. I'm trying to wtork out how many hours atm I'm doing house stuff is not house but...the rest. Its hard because here, like a parent, I don't go out and do x hours of chickens, then do my house work. I get most of the out side stuff done before 8/8:30, but then will run out with crumbs/scraps for the chickens, or check eggs, or check boundaries...while walking the dogs, or .....in anycase, for many people the two are hard to divide. (generally I consider the morning bit ''theirs'' and the day mine....but ...it wouldn't stand up to questioning!)

silvercar

StevieJ wrote: »

I think as LIR alluded to, why should child benefit have to compensate for doing the housework? Childcare yes and this could be included in a increased figure for joint (above HR rate) to compensate.

Low income families (actually not that low) get 80% of their childcare paid for through tax credits.

Foggster

Sorry if this has been covered.

My ex and I both have equal responsibility for our daughter. I get the CB and he pays me maintenance as agreed with the CSA but a private arrangement. I split the CB between us both and he reduces the amount he pays by £40 per month.

Under the new proposals, my husbands income will exceed the limit so I assume I will lose the CB.

However, would my ex, who is below the threshold, still be able to claim it for our daughter and give this to me in a similar way to the arrangement we have at the moment?

Is this a potential loophole for some families?

silvercar

Foggster wrote: »

Sorry if this has been covered.

My ex and I both have equal responsibility for our daughter. I get the CB and he pays me maintenance as agreed with the CSA but a private arrangement. I split the CB between us both and he reduces the amount he pays by £40 per month.

Under the new proposals, my husbands income will exceed the limit so I assume I will lose the CB.

However, would my ex, who is below the threshold, still be able to claim it for our daughter and give this to me in a similar way to the arrangement we have at the moment?

Is this a potential loophole for some families?

The child had to be living with you in order to claim CB. Also at the moment claiming CB is the meal ticket to all the benefits that go with having children, including claiming maintenance from your ex. Give the CB to your ex and he may not be obliged to pay you maintenance!

Foggster

silvercar wrote: »

The child had to be living with you in order to claim CB. Also at the moment claiming CB is the meal ticket to all the benefits that go with having children, including claiming maintenance from your ex. Give the CB to your ex and he may not be obliged to pay you maintenance!

I would be more than happy to give him the CB as we share responsibility for our child. Just like my husband shares responsibility for his child from his previous marriage.

I was only highlighting a potential "loophole" but I would be more than happy to let him claim the CB.

We are fortunate in that both children enjoy a very positive relationship between exes and presents!

StevieJ

silvercar wrote: »

Low income families (actually not that low) get 80% of their childcare paid for through tax credits.

I am not sure what that means.

ninky_2

tyllwyd wrote: »

Why does the argument always assume that this only affects a household with one working parent and one stay at home? My OH earns just over the threshold and I earn well under, so we will lose CB. But if we had the same income but he earned slightly less and I earned slightly more, we'd keep it. We still have the same childcare/housework/leisure time issues as any other household with two working parents - why treat us differently because the split is uneven?

there is always going to be some threshold with taxation. you could say you are already being penalised by tax thresholds because the percentage your husband earns in the high income bracket gets taxed more - whereas if you both were below the bracket (but earning same joint income), that income would be subject to less tax.

i point to the fact that the grumbles seem to have everything to do with jealousy of those who will continue to get this benefit and very little to do with actual genuine need of those who are losing it.

there is an interesting biblical parable about the workers in the vineyard that has much to teach about the pettiness of human envy even to atheists like myself. i feel that many should familiarise themselves with the moral of the story.