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Debate House Prices
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FTB Discrimination "incredibly unfair", now pay thousands more for mortgages
Comments
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Yes but, this time its different.0
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Good spot, Derv.
Hamish's opinions vary like the wind - if it's suggested low numbers of FTBs may impact on high house prices, then it's magically a great time for FTBs to buy - never been better. If, on the other hand, it's suggested that house prices might have fallen and be falling further, thus making it easier for FTBs, then suddenly we hear that interest rates are sky high and about to shoot up higher for FTBs, thus locking the poor dears out of the market.
Followed by numerous gloating smileys.
Hamish is nothing if not inconsistent. It's like his position on the economy. When it's doing well, apparently, then house prices must rise. If the economy is doing badly, however, then interest rates must be kept low forever, thus ensuring - you guessed it - that house prices will keep rising indefinitely.
The end doesn't so much justify the means as define it.
I suspect Hamish must be very fat, given his desire to both have his cake and eat it. On every occasion.
I might be wrong, but my overriding impression of Hamish is that he is greedy and selfish. I suppose we all are, to a degree, but Hamish takes it to another level and doesn`t mind others knowing it.
Hamish will critisise some bears for posting "doom and gloom" articles (and quite rightly so in many cases), but in many ways he`s no better. It`s all "buy, buy, buy..... I`m right, right, right". He can`t quite step outside his own little world and look at the bigger picture. As I`ve said before, this "nasty banks are charging FTB`s too much" thread is not real sympathy for FTB`s, it`s self interest.
Maybe Hamish isn`t so bad, but I have met a few people that have a similar attitude to him, and I generally find them quite unpleasant individuals.HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »And again, that ratio of 4.73 is the average of all people, including minimum wage burger flippers who cannot now, and never could, afford to buy a house.
No sympathy for people on minimum wage either.30 Year Challenge : To be 30 years older. Equity : Don't know, don't care much. Savings : That's asking for ridicule.0 -
Looks like Hamish has finally realised that the current housing Market is far from healthy. Without first time buyers his piles of bricks are not going to increase in value any time soon. Bless him.
And as others have pointed out, claiming that it's the bears' fault is rediculous, this is totally bull-made.0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »More straw man arguments from someone on the wrong side of trying to justify FTB's being ripped off by the banks.
The average mortgage payment, as a percentage of income, is indeed below the long term historical average.
But that's IF you can get a mortgage.
And that in no way detracts from the fact that FTB's are being ripped off in comparison to non-FTB's, and paying thousands of pounds a year more.
Apparently this post needs to be repeated for the intellectually challenged posters on this page too.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Looks like Hamish has finally realised that the current housing Market is far from healthy. Without first time buyers his piles of bricks are not going to increase in value any time soon. Bless him.
And as others have pointed out, claiming that it's the bears' fault is rediculous, this is totally bull-made.
To be fair, I think Hamish implied that the bears have got what they wanted (restrictions on lending), and that it is now having a negative effect for potential FTB`s.
I wanted restrictions about 7 years ago, as the signs of a property/credit bubble were appearing. The problem is that these restrictions were always going to feel worse, the longer they were avoided. 125% mortgages, IO mortgages, self-cert were all used to further support HPI. Just imagine where prices would be today if there hadn`t been a credit crunch. Imagine the deals that Northern Rock would now be offering - 150% ? The "live for today" brigade will always want just a little more, but something has to give eventually.30 Year Challenge : To be 30 years older. Equity : Don't know, don't care much. Savings : That's asking for ridicule.0 -
Apparently, I`m trying to "justify" FTB`s being ripped off by banks.
I don`t think I have been, but I`ll give it a go anyway.
Maybe the banks are doing FTB`s a favour.
Bank says to potential FTB`er "well, you can borrow £xxx,xxx, but you`re going to find it expensive".
FTB`er walks away (along with many others).
House prices fall.
FTB`er saves a bit more deposit over a year or two, then goes back to the bank to borrow a little less than they would have done previously.
Bank says to FTB`er "OK, you are going to borrow less, and you have a larger deposit. Less risk for us, so here`s a better deal".
FTB`er is happy. Hamish isn`t. Swings and roundabouts.
I`ll add that a quick look at financial info on teletext reveals that a FTB`er will be paying one or two % more than an existing mortgage payer. I`ll ask an open question - who would you rather lend money to in this economic environment, a FTB`er, or someone who has been paying a mortgage for 4 years ?
The deals I saw are 10% deposit & 4.5 to 5% for a FTB`er.
Someone remortgaging can get a lower rate (3 - 4%), but require a lower LTV (therefore less risk to the bank) and often with a tie-in.
Obviously these figures are only a guide.30 Year Challenge : To be 30 years older. Equity : Don't know, don't care much. Savings : That's asking for ridicule.0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote:It's all these bears that are to blame for first time buyers not being able to buy, grrrr, pesky bears...It's all these bulls that are to blame for first time buyers not being able to buy, grrrr, pesky bulls...
As usual with this forum, isn't it just a massive range of complex factors that have brought us to where we are? Saying that bears brought this on, or bulls made this happen, just shows the childish, one-dimensional thinking of this forum,
Years of surging house prices, 125% mortgages, reckless lending etc. which has meant (in a roundabout way) that mortgages have been hard to come by for FTBers. And were all the FTBers who were buying between 2001 - 2007 all scratching their heads in a worried fashion going "ooh no, this isn't good, what if we have a crash and the new generation of FTBers can't buy do to restricted mortgage lending?" No, of course they weren't.
At the same time, anyone who was rubbing their hands with glee for a 50% crash knew that any type of housing market crash would lead to restrictions in credit and difficulty for FTBers to buy a house.
I'm kinda with Derv, I think a few years of tight credit might do everyone a favour. FTBers can buy a house, they just need to meet high deposit and high interest rates. Those that can afford this can buy now. If the majority can't, house prices fall to a level where it becomes affordable and then people start buying again. But yet again, do we need this to be a bull and bear debate? Seems a touch more complex an issue to me.0 -
I'm kinda with Derv, I think a few years of tight credit might do everyone a favour. FTBers can buy a house, they just need to meet high deposit and high interest rates. Those that can afford this can buy now. If the majority can't, house prices fall to a level where it becomes affordable and then people start buying again.
"intellectually challenged" ? or common sense ?30 Year Challenge : To be 30 years older. Equity : Don't know, don't care much. Savings : That's asking for ridicule.0 -
The deals I saw are 10% deposit & 4.5 to 5% for a FTB`er.
Maybe it's just me, but I see that as a decent, average (looking at the last decade) type of deal.
A nice £135k terrace near me (or 'round my way', as I believe is the term on here) would require about £15,000 to get you in and a monthly repayment of about £700. Doesn't seem too bad really considering this will probably be the highest mortgage rate they ever pay.0
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