Desperately need advice- sellors solicitors gone bust and probate void

njh82

Hi

I really need advice as a FTB I have no idea how to deal with this. basically our offer got accepted on a flat on July21st. They informed us that probate had not yet been granted but was due to be sorted in a matter of weeks...as of yet it still hasn't been sorted. In addition to this the solicitors of the sellers are extremely slow and have been sending back paperwork unacceptably incomplete or with 'don't know' as ansers. They have no record of an asbestos survey which the bank are requesting is checked, their managment company (its leasehold) have not updated their accounts since 2009 and are suggesting rerendering the front of the building which they do not have the money for so concerned they will sting us for quarter of this (there are 4 flats)

My solicitor called today and they were already about £300 over most quotes but a family recommended firm so we went with them, however they have said because of the information coming in through dribs and drabs and them having to chase everything several times, the cost has already escalated to hundreds over the original estimate and is likely to exceed this.

We simply can't afford all this...what can we do!!!!?

hazyjo

Maybe speak with the solicitors and see if they'll offer a fixed price for everything?

These things are expensive and can go over, I'm afraid. Not sure there's much that can be done. How much did you budget for solicitors?

We've lost one buyer and are likely to lose the house we're going for - and will incur costs for all this. It's a pain, but there's not much we can do.

Maybe someone else will have a better suggestion...

Jx

njh82

He can't do a fixed price and to be fair its not their fault- they have complained to me about the sellers solicitors inadequacy and the slow place of them chasing information. We were quoted £1300 for the whole thing and apparently its already estimated to be £300 over this and likely to potentially hit the £2000 mark! Can we reduce our offer on the house or do anything at all to recoup costs as the fault lies with the sellers? They do not even respond to our estate agents or solicitors

hazyjo

Are the vendors buying somewhere else? Are you sure it's not them who are stalling? Might be that the top of the chain's collapsed and that you've not been told... worth checking with their agents.

Or, it might be worth writing to the vendors (or sending it via the estate agents) saying that their solicitors are slowing down the whole process and causing your costs to escalate. They might be totally unaware of their solicitors' incompetence/slowness and they might be under the impression you're being the slow one!

Jx

KiKi

£1300 for solicitors' fees to purchase a leasehold flat?! Please tell me you're kidding?!

Does that include stamp duty or the deposit?! Or work for the possible rendering?

Did they include VAT with that? (If not you need to be aware that you will need to pay VAT on top of the solicitors' price.)

If it doesn't include the above most solicitors / conveyancers will do a fixed price for around £600 for a straightforward flat / leasehold sale, plus VAT. Maybe a bit more. If the work is considerably more than expected you might expect to pay a bit more if agreed up front, but £1300 sounds extortionate to me as a basic fee. Did you get quotes from at least three solicitors? It sounds like they're charging you for every phone call made!

Re the re-rendering, I would instruct the solicitors that the current owner needs to pay for any planned works that are known about. No-one in their right mind is going to buy a place knowing they're about to fork out hundreds / thousands for upcoming work. When I left my last property my buyer wouldn't purchase knowing that roofing work needed to be done. So I had to paid out £3K for the roof in order to sell the flat, even though I wouldn't see the benefit of it.

If the management company haven't done accounts since 2009, you absolutely must NOT exchange without these. There are some unscrupulous management companies (whether it's outsourced or managed by the freeholder/s), and you don't want to get hit for unexpected costs. For all you know they could be in debt from works done to the property, and are about to increase the annual fees by £1000s to cover it. Honestly: do not exchange contracts until you have a FULL picture of the finances of the management company, what costs are coming up, and what the current seller will be paying for.

Let us know how you get on.

KiKi

tbs624

hazyjo wrote: »

Are the vendors buying somewhere else?

OP mentioned probate being applied for, so deceased estate presumably, which would explain much of the delay. Other family members often do not know the answers to some of the questions that will be asked.

OP - as hazyjo says, try using the EA to move things on a bit.


Also have a look at the Leasehold Advisory Service http://www.lease-advice.org/

hazyjo

tbs624 wrote: »

OP mentioned probate being applied for, so deceased estate presumably, which would explain much of the delay. Other family members often do not know the answers to some of the questions that will be asked.

Ah, yep, sorry - forgot about that! No wonder it's so slow...

Jx

njh82

We don't pay stamp duty as FTB so no it doesn't include deposit or stamp duty. As it was leasehold and due to no HIP anymore, the disembursements seemed to escalate the costs. We got a few quotes and most came in at near the £1000 mark but we paid extra because we wanted it to go through quickly and the partner of the firm is a family friend and so we knew we could lean on them a bit- more fool us as its actually the sellers holding it up.

I have just enquired what the sale abort fees would be on top of the £500 that has racked up so far. However, we can't change solicitors at this late stage can we? and presumeably we would rack up new costs doing this anyway?

Its so hard when you are a FTb and don't talk the legal lingo or know the real costs and times of things.

with reagrd to the chain- there is no chain either end, just probate..which hasn't been granted and we keep being told - in the next ten days and no joy!

Any advice on anything I can do!??

KiKi

njh82 wrote: »

We don't pay stamp duty as FTB so no it doesn't include deposit or stamp duty. As it was leasehold and due to no HIP anymore, the disembursements seemed to escalate the costs. We got a few quotes and most came in at near the £1000 mark but we paid extra because we wanted it to go through quickly and the partner of the firm is a family friend and so we knew we could lean on them a bit- more fool us as its actually the sellers holding it up.

I have just enquired what the sale abort fees would be on top of the £500 that has racked up so far. However, we can't change solicitors at this late stage can we? and presumeably we would rack up new costs doing this anyway?

Its so hard when you are a FTb and don't talk the legal lingo or know the real costs and times of things.

with reagrd to the chain- there is no chain either end, just probate..which hasn't been granted and we keep being told - in the next ten days and no joy!

Any advice on anything I can do!??

Yes - ask the solicitors for a full breakdown of the fees so far so you know what they're actually doing. I'm worried you're being a bit done over here. Most solicitors I've experienced in conveyancing wouldn't charge excessively like this. If you can see they're charging for phonecalls which are pointless (you can't make probate go any faster), or excessively for letters written to you (for example) then challenge them on it.

And as I've said above, make sure the accounts are sorted and the vendor pays for upcoming work which is known about before you exchange contracts.

You can change solicitors whenever you like, but yes, you would probably incur more fees. However, if you can get a breakdown of what's been done so far, there's no harm in asking another solicitor to quote a fixed price based on what's already been done for you. It would give you some idea, anyway. If they can charge a fixed price of £200 based on the fact that work has already been done, then you might be better off than with a solicitor who is charging seemingly based on the time taken. I'm not saying they're wrong for doing that, but they are expensive and if you can't afford it, then you can't afford it.

KiKi

loubel

njh82 wrote: »

the cost has already escalated to hundreds over the original estimate and is likely to exceed this.

You really need to talk to your solicitor about their fees and check the terms you signed when you first instructed them.

It is usual in a residential purchase to have a fixed fee. If you haven't got a fixed fee agreement then you need to find out exactly how they are charging you. If they are going to charge you considerably more than their estimate then they have to be able to justify that.

I hope you can sort matters out.

njh82

I have checked our T&C's and the estate agents offered us this:-

Leasehold Residential Purchase in England/Wales

Purchase Fee 687.30
Leasehold Supp 58.75
Online ID Check £14.10
Bank Transfer £35.25
searches £75.00
Land Registry £200.00
Completion of SDLT form £58.75

TOTAL £1129.23




We then asked around and accepted our solictors quote which is:-

principal fee ........................................................................ 700.00
Add
VAT at 17.5% on our principal fee ................................. 122.50
Our charge for Stamp Duty Land Tax Return .......................... 50.00
VAT at 17.5% on that charge................................. 8.75
Our charge for Bank Transfer (telegraphic transfer of
the purchase money to the seller’s conveyancer) .................... 30.00
VAT at 17.5% on that charge ............................... 5.25
Our e-Conveyancing fee ....................................................... 19.50
VAT at 17.5% on that charge ............................... 3.41
Disbursements (payments to third parties)

Stamp Duty Land Tax to HM Revenue & Customs ....

Land Registry registration fee ............................. 200.00
Land Registry search fees 8.00
. Local Authority Search fee 110.00
. Drainage & Water Authority search fee 38.07 Estimated total 1,295.48

so only a bit more than Agents quote? Have we been duped?

So I have spoken with my partner and we propose that due to

A)we were told probate was practically in place when we offered back in July

we have had to cash in his investments for the deposit anticipating that the completion would have occurred by now

C) We moved into temporary accommodation which is not indefinite and have had to place our belongings into storage with is costing £130 a month

D)their lack of competency with supplying us with answers and the slow communications

We would like to renegotiate the offer to cover excess costs incurred and also put in place that if completion has not occurred by a marked date then they must cover both our rent and storage fees until completion takes place or we will withdraw from the sale...


Is this unreasonable?