MSE News: The easy way to navigate the energy market maze

Cardew

Just to add, if you declared 257kWh per year - or I declared 1kWh pa - I doubt if the switch would be accepted. Although not sure on what grounds they would refuse; so you would need 'estimate' a higher consumption!!;)

Actually I have now left BG for main account - now with EON.

My annex is with ????(not EON) and I am quite confident that despite the cottage being used quite a bit this year, it will cost me nothing for gas and electricity.

geordie_joe

Plushchris wrote: »

Yeah, its usually Scottish Power, whats your point?

Thought you said Npower pay the most comission?

Quidco, npower 140 scottish power 105

That's my point.

geordie_joe

Plushchris wrote: »

Looks to me like they are both right, its just that Npower for some reason isnt taking off the the £52 DD discount

Yes, but if npower aren't taking off the discount, could it be because they aren't going to give me one?

I find it hard to believe that npower aren't saying they will give me a discount when a comparison site says they will.

How can npower not include the discount in their calculations when the comparison site can?

Especially when I enter 2257KWh the logo that says "Includes a £50 discount" appears, but when I enter just 257KWh the logo does not appear.

And entering a few more figures, I find that no discount is mentioned on a 600KWh usage, but a discount is mentioned on a 700KWh usage.

I haven't got time tonight, but I bet I could find the KHw usage point where the discount kicks in, and anything below that doesn't get a discount.

oakhouse13

Plushcrhis, the reason you are confused is because pricing has gone way beyond anything that people need or can understand. Computers don't help, they just mask complexity and in fact invite even more masked complications and layers of wasteful commission. This is why fewer people switched this year compared with last - yes, amazingly given the recession, the numbers switching are down.

My comments about a discount (called for marketing purposes a discount for paying by direct debit) is that when it is a tariff that is displayed in the tables and you are being invited to switch to it, it helps to deduct that discount from the estimated annual expenditure, even though not all consumers (especially those most in need) will actually be paid that discount.

This is what the notes in the comparison table meant in my example, when they said: "The savings quoted include any discounts associated with the tariff".

Now, some time later, that same consumer goes back to the tables. They input this tariff which they switched to last time as their current tariff at the start of the process to give a figure for their current expenditure. Now it includes the inflated discount making it a bigger number so easier to display a saving and sell another switch.

If a high proportion of people switching by comparison table are in financial need, they are vulnerable to selecting a tariff at the top of the table showing the biggest saving even though this is the one with the biggest risk. (Don't forget, comparison tables sold Icelandic savings accounts by having criteria to put them top and that was enough for people to ignore all the known risks. Tables are an incredibly powerful marketing device).

It's quite possible in my mind given the state of earnings and employment that nPower and Scottish Power and banks might actually profit from a so called direct debit discount only paid after a year. Some customers will do so well, as Kim graciously admitted, they will pay nothing, while other customers will pay more as a result of trusting a table. Yes, they are partly responsible, because they should not have taken the risk of a tariff that pays a discount after a year, but it is not possible in my view for consumers to know a year in advance what their situation will be so they are not to blame for choosing the wrong tariff, the comparison sites and energy companies are to blame for exploiting them for their own profit.

This is my point, in a market like energy these carrots serve no purpose in a fair society. Kim does not want to pay nothing for his/her fuel knowing old people paying too much economise and die.

We all want the lowest prices for everyone, especially the most vulnerable. Comparison tables are to earn commission not deliver fair pricing. Lack of transparency definitely causes increased price discrimination.

I would like to see discounts limited to a very small percentage of annual spend and realistic to the savings that customer represents to the company. The most important thing though is that prices need to be so simplified so that everyone has an idea of what gas and electricity costs on average, like we know more or less the price of milk or butter. When consumers don't know ball park unit figures, that's when they can be exploited and when most do not engage with the marketplace. They are too nervous so stick with what they already have, which has its own problems.

Plushchris

geordie_joe wrote: »

Quidco, npower 140 scottish power 105

That's my point.

That high figure for Npower was for signing up to its expensive Juice tariff wasnt it?

Hard to say as its gone back down to £100 now so does that mean we will see Npower off the top of the results on comparisons?

I think you'll find Npower pay a paltry £20 for single and £40 for dual fuel switches to their cheap tariffs (higher cashback is available but only if you sign up to a more expensive tariff) compared to Scottish power who are paying £105 for all dual switches and £52.50 for singles..

Dont see scottish power coming up top of the comparison sites though.. so that blows a hole in your arguement

And most of the time Scottish Power pays the highest comission on any of the cashback sites..

Ypaymore

AMO wrote: »

You won't see Utility Warehouse being offered for example even though they come cheapest in many situations simply because they don't pay commission.

Nonsense.

They normarly appear on comparism sites and they do pay commission.They are one of the most expensive suppliers around.

Try getting a quote on one lets say http://www.which.co.uk/switch/ and your find them.

Which confirms they receive commission.

"Which? Switch has agreements in place with energy suppliers and receives a fee for each new contract switched to a new energy supplier via this switching service. These agreements do not affect the impartiality of the energy tariff comparisons provided on this website.
Which? Switch is a not for profit switching website and the fees go towards Which? campaigns to make individuals as powerful as the organisations they face in everyday life."

http://www.which.co.uk/switch/faqs/which-switch-faqs/how-does-which-switch-make-money

Your not a UW Distributor by any chance?