MSE News: The easy way to navigate the energy market maze

geordie_joe

Plushchris wrote: »

Have you got any evidence that Npower pay the most comission? A link would be nice.

I've got evidence and can provide links, but you would have to be a member of some affiliate networks to see them.

Alternatively, you could check the cashback on some 100% cashback sites, and see where you get the best rate for switching.

Plushchris wrote: »

So you didnt bother checking on the comparison site if it would be cheaper to just switch one fuel? All the comparison sites I've used have this feature.

But the point is it didn't tell me that switching to two different suppliers would be best, it said switching to npower would be best, which was wrong.

Plushchris wrote: »

And how was the comparison wrong? You would still save £100 would you not?

Yes, but if it was really telling me the most I could save it would have told me to switch to two different suppliers.

Plushchris wrote: »

By using the comparison site properly you could have done the same thing and not gone to the effort of working it out yourself.

No, I could not have done that. Because the site I was using did not include Ebico, because they don't pay commission.

Plushchris wrote: »

Again, I'd be very interested in your evidence for this, I'm sure there would be lots of others on this site interested in seeing the the comission breakdown the sites get, you seem to know a lot about it, please share!

Again, you would have to be a member of affiliate networks to see the page. But try looking on a site like Quidco, you get £20 for switching one fuel and £40 for switching two.

http://www.quidco.com/utilities/npower/

Plushchris wrote: »

Comparison websites work on annual figures, putting a quarterly bill into any of them will give you a wrong comparison.

Not the one I was using, t gave the option of entering a yearly number of units used, or a £ spend in either monthly, Quarterly or Yearly.

Plushchris wrote: »

Many many people have posted on here saying the comparison websites are incorrect and to my knowledge none have been able to prove that when asked for the figures they were using so if you can provide all the figures you were using then we would be able to see if the website you were using was indeed incorrect..

Ok, here's an example

Go here

http://www.energyhelpline.com/

Enter the postcode dt11 7dx and hit the continue button

Tick the box to say you don't want to compare electricity prices.

The gas part should be British Gas, Standard, Pay on Receipt of Bill

In the KWh per year box enter 257 and click the continue button.

On the next page leave the boxes as they are, pay by DD and search all tariffs. then hit the Price button.

The top result says you will have an annual spend of minus £41 with npower, and the next 3 results say you will have an annual spend of a minus figure if you switch to npower.

If I switch to npower will they really supply me with the 257 KWh of gas I use per year for free and give me £41 on top?


Notice also that if I switch to npower I will save between £50 and £59 on my gas. But how can they know that, they never asked what I was paying in the first place. For all they know I could already be using npower Sign On-Line 19, so switching to it will actually save me sweet FA.

Plushchris wrote: »

It usually boils down to one thing, the comparison websites are only as good as the person using them, you put crap in, you'll get crap out.

No, it usually boils down to the site algorithm being set up to push npower, even if it has to tell you npower will pay you to take their gas.

These comparison sites are set up just as the door to door sales people are. Find out how much you are paying/using, deduct a percentage and tell you that's how much you will pay with npower.

A door to door sales person would realise if deducting the percentage came up with a minus figure, and change the percentage. But a computer doesn't, it will just produce the result of the calculation. even when it is a minus figure.

So it's very easy to get these sites to tell you that switching to npower will mean you pay nothing for your fuel, or even that npower will pay you for taking it off your hands.

Plushchris

As I was saying, the prompt payment discounts from Scottish Power can add up to £150 per year, can you honestly say that that "reflects the true saving from offering that payment method"?

They, however are not included in comparisons.

Even if the DD discounts did "reflect the true saving" are you saying they should or shouldnt be included?? I cant work it out..

I think this thread is going off topic, it relates to how the comparison sites make it easier to negotiate the confusion marketing from the energy suppliers. And the comparison sites DO make it easier to do that.

The dabate about tariff structures is more to do with the suppliers than the comparison sites. Even Cardew says he doesnt like them but admits they are useful tools for comparing prices.

I too would love to see the day that all the companies use the same pricing stuctures and discounts (or no discounts would be better) but I'm not going to hold my breath and dont believe for one minute that getting rid of comparison sites would make the slightest difference, as I said, if they were abolished tomorrow prices wouldnt go down because of it.

geordie_joe

geordie_joe wrote: »

Ok, here's an example

Go here

http://www.energyhelpline.com/

Enter the postcode dt11 7dx and hit the continue button

Tick the box to say you don't want to compare electricity prices.

The gas part should be British Gas, Standard, Pay on Receipt of Bill

In the KWh per year box enter 257 and click the continue button.

On the next page leave the boxes as they are, pay by DD and search all tariffs. then hit the Price button.

The top result says you will have an annual spend of minus £41 with npower, and the next 3 results say you will have an annual spend of a minus figure if you switch to npower.

If I switch to npower will they really supply me with the 257 KWh of gas I use per year for free and give me £41 on top?


Notice also that if I switch to npower I will save between £50 and £59 on my gas. But how can they know that, they never asked what I was paying in the first place. For all they know I could already be using npower Sign On-Line 19, so switching to it will actually save me sweet FA.

OK, I've just been on the npower web site and put in the exact same information. With the extra information of giving my real supplier and tariff, which is Southern Electric Standard.

Npower say (if I switch to Sign Online 19) I will pay £11.78 per year for my gas, not the minus £41 the comparison site says.

They also say I will be saving £6.08 per year, not the £59 (328%) the comparison site said.

Anyone care to say which site will be right?

geordie_joe

Plushchris wrote: »

dont believe for one minute that getting rid of comparison sites would make the slightest difference, as I said, if they were abolished tomorrow prices wouldnt go down because of it.

But would the number of people being told the supplier who pays the highest commission is the best go down?

Plushchris

geordie_joe wrote: »

Not the one I was using, t gave the option of entering a yearly number of units used, or a £ spend in either monthly, Quarterly or Yearly.



Ok, here's an example

Go here

http://www.energyhelpline.com/

Enter the postcode dt11 7dx and hit the continue button

Tick the box to say you don't want to compare electricity prices.

The gas part should be British Gas, Standard, Pay on Receipt of Bill

In the KWh per year box enter 257 and click the continue button.

On the next page leave the boxes as they are, pay by DD and search all tariffs. then hit the Price button.

The top result says you will have an annual spend of minus £41 with npower, and the next 3 results say you will have an annual spend of a minus figure if you switch to npower.

If I switch to npower will they really supply me with the 257 KWh of gas I use per year for free and give me £41 on top?


Notice also that if I switch to npower I will save between £50 and £59 on my gas. But how can they know that, they never asked what I was paying in the first place. For all they know I could already be using npower Sign On-Line 19, so switching to it will actually save me sweet FA.



No, it usually boils down to the site algorithm being set up to push npower, even if it has to tell you npower will pay you to take their gas.

These comparison sites are set up just as the door to door sales people are. Find out how much you are paying/using, deduct a percentage and tell you that's how much you will pay with npower.

A door to door sales person would realise if deducting the percentage came up with a minus figure, and change the percentage. But a computer doesn't, it will just produce the result of the calculation. even when it is a minus figure.

So it's very easy to get these sites to tell you that switching to npower will mean you pay nothing for your fuel, or even that npower will pay you for taking it off your hands.

Ok, basic knowledge of how a comparison website works..

You may be able to put in a quarterly amount/monthly amount but the website will always multiply that by 4/12 to do an annual comparison... Thats why its always important to enter your ANNUAL Kwh usage figures.

YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO A COMPARISON BASED ON A QUARTERS USAGE/BILL as the website will always do a years comparison. Hence at the top of the results page it says "Your current spend on gas is £xxx per year" whatever you have put into the site be it monthly or quarterly.

And if you really do use 257kwh of gas a year then yes, Npower WILL pay you to take the gas off them, you will have to pay a monthly DD then get the £52 DD discount back at the end of the 12 months. This has been mentioned many times on here for extremely low users like yourself, I'm surprised you havent seen it on here before..

Plushchris

geordie_joe wrote: »

Alternatively, you could check the cashback on some 100% cashback sites, and see where you get the best rate for switching.

Yeah, its usually Scottish Power, whats your point?

Thought you said Npower pay the most comission?

Plushchris

geordie_joe wrote: »

OK, I've just been on the npower web site and put in the exact same information. With the extra information of giving my real supplier and tariff, which is Southern Electric Standard.

Npower say (if I switch to Sign Online 19) I will pay £11.78 per year for my gas, not the minus £41 the comparison site says.

They also say I will be saving £6.08 per year, not the £59 (328%) the comparison site said.

Anyone care to say which site will be right?

Looks to me like they are both right, its just that Npower for some reason isnt taking off the the £52 DD discount

Take the £52 off your spend of £11 and what do you get? The - £41 the comparison website suggests..

Also, £11.78 spend plus the £6.08 savings = £18 (rounded off) which funnily enough is what the comparison site says it what your current spend is..

So what are you saying is wrong with that comparison again??

Cardew

geordie_joe wrote: »

If I switch to npower will they really supply me with the 257 KWh of gas I use per year for free and give me £41 on top?

Actually Geordie I believe they would!

Without going into your detail(or the wider argument), it is perfectly possible for you(the customer)to receive money i.e. make a profit, for having an account.

I have a little used annex to my house that has separate gas and electricity meters and has to have separate accounts. The electricity used is minimal - gas a little more for the central heating and Hot water.

For many years - indeed since the introduction of No Standing Charge - I had a £1 a month DD for electricity with BG and the discounts applied to this account meant at the end of a year I had quite a bit more than £12 I had paid in my account.(I had used some electricity)

They manually reduced my DD to zero, and the money kept rolling in and my credit balance increased most months.

The new BG computer system however will not accept less than £5 a month as a DD. So I paid that and still had more than £60 credit balance at the end of the year.

This is the stupidity of computer generated accounts that are untouched by 'human hand'. Each month I paid my DD and my credit balance increased! Nothing to flag up my account to accounts staff and when I reached £100 the system refunded that amount.

As a test I just entered 1kWh per year consumption for both gas and electricity(payment by DD) and I would receive that 'huge consumption' and Npower would pay me £115 a year for the honour of supplying me - and I am quite confident that would happen.

Plushchris

geordie_joe wrote: »

Notice also that if I switch to npower I will save between £50 and £59 on my gas. But how can they know that, they never asked what I was paying in the first place. For all they know I could already be using npower Sign On-Line 19, so switching to it will actually save me sweet FA.

Yes they did, on the page where it asks you who you are with and what tariff you are on, you told them to compare against BG's standard tariff prices.. They work out how much you are paying for 257 units on the standard tariff..

Like I said, only as good as the people using them...

geordie_joe

Plushchris wrote: »

Ok, basic knowledge of how a comparison website works..

You may be able to put in a quarterly amount/monthly amount but the website will always multiply that by 4/12 to do an annual comparison... Thats why its always important to enter your ANNUAL Kwh usage figures.

But I did enter my annual KWh figures !!!

But what if I had taken me yearly usage/spend, divided it by 4 and entered that? Would the site not just multiple that figure by 4 and come up with the right yearly usage/spend.

Similarly with a monthly figure.

You may think I'm daft, but I'm smart enough to know when a site asks for monthly/quarterly figures I take the yearly figure and divide buy 4 or 12.

Plushchris wrote: »

YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO A COMPARISON BASED ON A QUARTERS USAGE/BILL

I didn't do a comparison based on quarters usage/bill. But I did have the option?

If I can't do that why does it give the option?

Plushchris wrote: »

as the website will always do a years comparison. Hence at the top of the results page it says "Your current spend on gas is £xxx per year" whatever you have put into the site be it monthly or quarterly.

But what difference will it make to the figures if I enter my monthly/quarterly figures divided by 12/4 respectively?

Plushchris wrote: »

And if you really do use 257kwh of gas a year then yes, Npower WILL pay you to take the gas off them,

Well the npower web site says quite clearly that it won't.

Should I realy sign up to npower because a comparison site say they will give me the gas for free and pay me £41 to take it off their hands, when npower says "No we won't"!

Plushchris wrote: »

you will have to pay a monthly DD then get the £52 DD discount back at the end of the 12 months. This has been mentioned many times on here for extremely low users like yourself, I'm surprised you havent seen it on here before..

I don't usually hang around in here, but npower says it won't do that.

Who do I believe, you or npower?

If I sign up to them when they have said I will pay £11.78 for my gas, including all discounts. Then at the end of the year I tell them Plushchris said I would get a further £52 discount, so they owe me £41, will they pay it?