Possession order or abandonment notice?

docmaggiemay

I am the landlord of a property let on a 12 month AST. The tenant has not been paying his rent and is by now in arrears of 2400 which is 4 months. Initially he said he'd lost his job so I gave him a bit of time, but he clearly wasn't paying so I served him a section 8 notice to quit on the grounds of severe rent arrears

I beleive he has left the property but am not absolutely sure.

The neighbours saw him putting boxes in a van and havent heard or seen him since. There are however a few possessions in the house (I had good reasons to go in) - a shelf of books, a coat, a couple of old pans and a big pile of magazines dated months ago. There's a duvet on the bed, and a ashtray on the bedside table. There's a loaf in the fridge dated mid august and a few cans in the cupboard. That's it. Nothing of value. Nothing personal, no clothes. Oh and there a big pile of mail there on the mat including bailiffs letters.

I think he's done a runner.

I know the safest thing is to go to court to get a possession order - but that will take probably 3 months and cost lots of cash. The agent advised, just write to him and stick a abandonment notice on the door giving him 14 days to get in touch, then change the locks.

Ive heard about various scams, and the risk of a potential charge if illegal eviction in the unlikely event he turns up again, but it would save a lot of hassle and money. Anyone got any experience of this? Too risky?

tbs624

Two links for you to look at , both from Tessa Shepperson, a solicitor who specialises in LL & T law

Here ( urban myth that LLs don't need a possession order if they use a "abandonment notice") and here (LL guide to abandonment of properties)

Letting agents don't need to be trained, qualified, or have any particular expertise before setting up in business so always seek clarification from a legal professional.

You say that you had "good reason" to go in - did you have a witness with you? Was it a genuine emergency? Was there anything other than the neighbours seeing the T loading boxes that made you think the T had def. abandoned the property??

clutton_2

""The agent advised, just write to him and stick a abandonment notice on the door giving him 14 days to get in touch, then change the locks.""

i did this very thing a few years back... i put a notice in the lounge window saying "anyone needing legal access to this property contact this number"

the only call i got was from a copper trying to track donw the ex tenant

2 weeks later i changed the locks and re-tenanted

i would also take photographs and do it with a witness who can do you a witness statement if necessary - but i doubt very much that anyone who owes you £4k is gonna come demanding re-entry

G_M

Two very different views above - both sensible! tbs recommends the 'correct' but expensive approach. Clutton the pragmatic.

Having never been in the situation I read Tessa's advice with interest. The point about a tenant handing back keys being a ...err.. key (sorry!) indicator of abandonment seemed particularly relevant.

In this case that does not seem to have happened, but I'm still inclined towards clutton's view that the tenant has done a runner, owes £4K and is unlikely to return.

But it's a gamble.

clutton_2

last year i was alerted by neighbours that a tenant was doing a runner.. so i turned up and chanaged the locks as she left - i took photos of the removal vans and the locksmith gave me a witness statement.. she owed me money - and i have had no contact from her since...

a small risk in my view - why pay court fees if you dont have to....and waste all that perishin time on paperwork....

tbs624

G_M wrote: »

Two very different views above - both sensible! tbs recommends the 'correct' but expensive approach. Clutton the pragmatic.

Now then G_M

Tessa's comments in the links I gave discuss both approaches: my recommendation was/is that anyone with doubts on how to handle this sort of situation understands a bit more about the legalities, and Tessa, as a qualified LL & T lawyer, sets things out clearly.

The steps that she describes do not necessarily mean a huge expense (plus the costs are tax deductible) - see Step 7 in her article.

On abandonment notices see Tessa's comment

"... prior to being told about abandonment notices by a letting agent I had never heard of them, and have never seen any reference to them in the legal press or in any legal text books on property repossession. This re-inforces my view that they developed solely out of landlords wishful thinking and a desire to avoid the expense and delay of repossession proceedings, and have no legal validity whatsoever.".

G_M wrote: »

In this case that does not seem to have happened, but I'm still inclined towards clutton's view that the tenant has done a runner, owes £4K and is unlikely to return.

But it's a gamble.

You're right that it's a gamble and IMO it's very important for LLs to know that.

The decision has to be the individual LLs , taking into account the full circumstances (note the questions in the last sentence of my previous post) and considering whether or not the LL may just be playing into the hands of an experienced "dodgy" T.:)

docmaggiemay

You say that you had "good reason" to go in - did you have a witness with you?

I did. The next door neighbour came in with me. I have know him for 16 years having lived in the rental property myself before letting it, and consider him reliable.

Was it a genuine emergency?

All of the upstairs windows of the property were wide open, and had been for at least 3 weeks. Looking under the kitchen blind I could see that a handle had been removed from the kitchen tap and water was leaking from it. Also, water was running from the upstairs bathroom overflow pipe out into the path, I therefore considered that the security of the property was at risk and it was a risk of flooding, so considered it an emergency.

Was there anything other than the neighbours seeing the T loading boxes that made you think the T had def. abandoned the property??

He owed me rent. The last time I spoke to him on the phone to ask him to leave he told me he thought he would go and stay with his cousin until he found somewhere else to live. He doesn't anwer the phone to me, but on one occassion when I phoned from a different phone the day before this happened, someone else answered, when I asked 'was X there' I was told 'I'm his cousin, he's just popped out, I therefore don't beleive he is in hosptal,prison etc.'The coat rack was empty. I looked through the back windows of the property and saw that nothing was there except my furniture. I saw a large pile of unopened mail on the mat through the door, the top letter of which was in an envolope labelled 'equita, registered bailiffs.' my letters I had previously send him were also still visible - I had deliberately put them right through the letter box in a way I'd be able to see if they had moved from where I put them, the most recent one was 3 weeks previously. Two neighbours independently told me had had moved. The nex door neighbours had not heard any noise in the property for 3 weeks, its a terraced house and they usually can hear the neighbours well.

I know its a risk. But is it too mch of risk to spend lots of money on a court case, bailiffs etc, 3 months extra owed rent and 3 months not renting?

I'm really not sure. I'm tempted to take a pragmatic approach...

DVardysShadow

docmaggiemay wrote: »

But is it too mch of risk to spend lots of money on a court case, bailiffs etc, 3 months extra owed rent and 3 months not renting?

I'm really not sure. I'm tempted to take a pragmatic approach...

It strikes me that the low risk approach is to take it to court, because it will be uncontested. There will be no bailiffs required so you could think about representing yourself.

If it is contested, well face up to it, you would have to fight this anyway. But judging by the heap of correspondence, this tenant is one who does runners.

clutton_2

take the risk... he isn't coming back.....

docmaggiemay

Just had a thought. The fixed term 12 month tenancy came to an end on 2 sept. I asked the estate agents to serve the section 8 on 1 sept, they did so dated 3 sept in case he didn't leave/pay.

I think my neighbour (who is reliable, has a very good memory and would give me a statement to this effect) said that the van he saw with his posessions being loaded was there on 2 sept, ie the last day of his tenancy. Would this help my case that he has left, at all?

teeni

I had a recent case where a landlord put a so called abandonment notice on the property and then after 14 days changed the locks there were high rent arrears.
Tenant had left some clothes in the bedroom,some dvd's in the lounge returned two weeks later from staying with friends and could not get into his home, he applied to local authority for help and was referred to us for legal advice.
An emergency application was made for an injunction to get him back in to his home which failed as it was ex partie application.

Full hearing 2 days later when landlord was clearly told by Judge that an appearance of abandonment was not sufficent, tenancy can only be determined by court order unless specifically surrendered and client was returned to property and significant compensation award made which more than cleared the arrears that had accrued.
By the time landlord paid costs of proceedings he was many thousands of pounds out of pocket. Hardly seems worth the risk when a court order will cost just £150.00 and you are in the clear.