Is this really Pearl's policy ?

mr.mandrake

My retired father is recently deceased having had 3 pension policies with Pearl, 2 paid to him monthly and the other quarterly.

Pearl was asked, via its website contact function, how we should officially inform the company of a policy holder's death. Pearl did not respond to this request.

Pearl was telephoned and, citing the Data Protection Act, a Pearl employee asked for the policy holder's name and address, his date of birth and a date of death. It was explained that no policy numbers could be given as no original policy documents could be found. The employee explained that no further pension payments would be paid and that a claims form would be posted.

We received a letter from Pearl quoting my father's 3 policy numbers and asking for Sight of the policy holder's death certificate, the return of all original policy documents and the repayment of all monies paid to the policy holder since death.

Pearl was again telephoned and, citing the Data Protection Act, a Pearl employee asked for the policy holder's name and address and his date of birth. These were given and it was explained to the employee that all original policy documents were lost and that we were reluctant to return any payments without first knowing if the pension payments were made in advance or in arrears. The employee, again citing the Data Protection Act, explained that the terms of any policy could not be discussed with anyone other than the policy holder without Pearl first having sight of a policy holder's death certificate.

So Pearl is very happy to stop all pension payments without sight of a death certificate on the strength of a telephone call from anyone who know's a policy holder's name, address and date of birth but the exact same information is not saticfactory in order to discuss whether any payments that Pearl demand returned were in fact made in advance or arrears.

Out of curiosity the employee was then asked for the name of the person who had originally informed Pearl of the policy holder's death... the employee replied that he had no idea because it had not been noted at the time of the call.

Wanting to know more about Pearl's business practices, the employee was then asked a hypothetical question - what would have happened if the original call was made maliciously? The answer, and I quote - "If we don't receive a death certificate within a month, then all pension payments would automatically recommence."

That's OK then.

ReportInvestor

It's not OK.

It's very hard for you at what must be a very difficult time for the family, and you have highlighted some dangerous flaws in Pearl's procedures. You have my sympathies.

I suppose it highlights the importance of keeping documents and records clearly and together - as well as making a will. None of us knows when we might pass away.

mr.mandrake

ReportInvestor, thank you for your sympathy.

It does indeed highlight the importance of keeping documents, but for one's own family's benefit - not for the benefit of Pearl Group Limited.

I agree entirely with your assessment of Pearl's procedures and moreover;

Pearl should not need sight of original policy documents in order to inform itself of whether payments on those policies are made in advance or in arrears.

Pearl should not need to be told if any payments have been made by itself after any given date.

Pearl should not require the return of any payments made after the death of a policy holder unless it is certain those payments were made in advance. Why would Pearl wish to cause anymore work for itself, or indeed anymore hardship for the family of one of its longstanding customers than is absolutely necessary?

I suspect Pearl is in effect asking us to do work on its behalf.

Pearl assumes (Pearl hasn't asked) that any monies it has paid to my late father are accessible by someone other than my late father.

IF my father died intestate (Pearl hasn't asked) surely Pearl would understand that everyone who felt they had a call on the estate would have to wait until a grant of Probate was issued - or indeed perhaps even apply to the court themselves?

I suspect Pearl is being disingenuous in the way it is dealing with us.

ReportInvestor

And a belated "welcome" to the site. I admire your forensic dissection of Pearl's approach.

I've PMed you (private message) about a personal matter. You can access Private messages via a box near the top right of your screen.


I assume that these Pearl policies were annuities, but that were probably invested in Pearl pensions beforehand, unfortunately .
The demise of AMP / Pearl - Investors' Association link
This extensive IA coverage of the company perhaps gives a clue as to why Pearl are always on the defensive in their policyholder relations.

Have a look at Pearl's treatment of this pension investor & the appalling returns on his investment as reported in the Mail

dunstonh

Whilst I think Pearl are a disgrace on paperwork and admin at times, i think you are possibly reading too much into the situation and expecting too much from a contracted call centre employee who is not authorised to give advice and doesnt actually deal with the transaction.

Most of the points you mention are covered on the claims form and the claims department who deal with the paperwork would know what to do.

The person at the call centre doesnt have much of the information you mention (such as arrears/advance) on their computer screen. Asking you makes sense.

In death claims, I have found Pearl to be fine as long as you dont phone them up. The form is straight forward and where investments are involved, the payments are fine within timescales.

Just dont expect them to give any advice (as they arent allowed to) and dont expect them to offer much help (as they have no reason to).

ReportInvestor

dunstonh wrote:

In death claims, I have found Pearl to be fine.

You actually had clients invested with Pearl ?

mr.mandrake

dunstonh wrote:

Whilst I think Pearl are a disgrace on paperwork and admin at times, i think you are possibly reading too much into the situation and expecting too much from a contracted call centre employee who is not authorised to give advice and doesnt actually deal with the transaction.

Most of the points you mention are covered on the claims form and the claims department who deal with the paperwork would know what to do.

The person at the call centre doesnt have much of the information you mention (such as arrears/advance) on their computer screen. Asking you makes sense.

In death claims, I have found Pearl to be fine as long as you dont phone them up. The form is straight forward and where investments are involved, the payments are fine within timescales.

Just dont expect them to give any advice (as they arent allowed to) and dont expect them to offer much help (as they have no reason to).

dunstonh, thanks for your reply.

Pearl has not furnished a claim form, Pearl has not had sight of its policy holder's death certificate, Pearl has suspended the payments on 3 of its policies on the strength of what amounts to an anonymous telephone call.

Pearl has insisted that all payments made to my late father be returned regardless of whether they were made in advance.

At no point during telephone conversations did any Pearl employee describe themselves as a call centre operative and at no point did they offer to transfer the call to someone who could better deal with the questions being asked.

The tone of each conversation was such that nobody at Pearl understood the implications of what they had done, what they were doing or what they were advising us to do.

I honestly don't believe it falls to anyone else to do Pearl's job other than Pearl itself.

dunstonh

You actually had clients invested with Pearl ?

I had 5 introducers who are all ex Pearl staff. Pearl has been a bit of a cash register for me since they closed. I havent totalled it up but over 1,000 policies have been changed and about £8 million pounds moved out. I am on first name terms with a number of their staff at Peterborough.

At no point during telephone conversations did any Pearl employee describe themselves as a call centre operative

The person answering the phone is their first level call centre employee. I think that there has to be some assumption that the person answering the phone works in the call centre.

and at no point did they offer to transfer the call to someone who could better deal with the questions being asked.

Trying to get through to the actual teams that do the work is damned difficult. The usual process is that the call centre staff take the information, record it and pass it on to the department concerned.

The tone of each conversation was such that nobody at Pearl understood the implications of what they had done, what they were doing or what they were advising us to do.

They wont know what they are doing and they are not advising. Pearl havent operated a licence to give advice for about 4 years now. They react to what they are told. You inform them what you want and your largely ignore what the person on the phone says.

I honestly don't believe it falls to anyone else to do Pearl's job other than Pearl itself.

What is Pearls job? To send the executor of the estate the claims form to be filled in. Then to act on that claims form. That is the extent of the work they are required to do. It hasnt got that far yet though.

Pearl has suspended the payments on 3 of its policies on the strength of what amounts to an anonymous telephone call.

Correct. Banks cancel direct debits over the phone on the same principle because its always easier to send the money again later rather than let it go through and try and get it back later. They have taken a business risk decision to act initially on the phone call pending paperwork and followup.

I dont want to sound like an apologist for Pearl. I have taken them to the ombudsman on behalf of clients in the past and they have done some pretty awful things (one of which resulted in the death of a client) and their admin is very often wrong (especially on pension transfers). I am just posting from the point of view of knowing how they work and dealing with them.

When you phone up, most of the staff are on short term contracts and they have little buy in to the job they are doing. They have hardly any knowledge and are no good for anything other than taking a message to pass on or give values. There are some very good ones sprinkled in there but the odds are not on your side of getting one of those. Phone during busy times and you have more chance of getting a more experienced member of staff.

Pearl have a service standard to deliver documents of about 10 working days. Often that slips to 21.

Forget the call centre for advice or information. Get them to send the claims form and point out that it has been requested before and not arrived and they can fast track the requested and get it to you in 5 days.

Pearl has insisted that all payments made to my late father be returned regardless of whether they were made in advance.

Have they written to request that or is just one of the call centre staff? If call centre, then ignore it. If they want it, they will ask for it in writing and the person sending the letter wont be the call centre person but someone in the claims team.

scottishf

I just made a claim on a funeral expenses policy ....and they took about 6 weeks to pay out!!!! i had to find the funeral money from other sources until the money came through!!!! and silly me was thinking that a funeral expenses policy should pay out in time to pay for the funeral!!

mr.mandrake

dunstonh,

So your advice is to work on the assumption that nobody picking up a phone on behalf of Pearl is anything other than a short term, disinterested malcontent call centre employee and as such everything everyone at Pearl has so far advised us to do within a telephone conversation should be ignored.

What is Pearls job? To send the executor of the estate the claimsform to be filled in. Then to act on that claims form. That is the extent of the work they are required to do. It hasnt got that far yet though.

Pearl has not asked who the executor of my father's estate is... Pearl has sent a letter asking us to provide them with an original death certificate, original policy dicuments, and the return of all monies paid to my late father since his death.

Do you suggest, because this is not the claim form that the call centre malcontent advised that we would be receiving, that we ignore the letter completely?

Correct. Banks cancel direct debits over the phone on the same principle because its always easier to send the money again later rather than let it go through and try and get it back later. They have taken a business risk decision to act initially on the phone call pending paperwork and followup.

Are you qualified to assure me that this is exactly what Pearl has done?

A bank certainly will NOT discuss, let alone action a change to any bank account over the telephone without satisfying itself that the person they are talking to is the account holder. The first thing a bank will ask for is an account number and if the caller cannot furnish the correct account number the call will terminate.

A Pearl call centre emplyee cancelled payment on 3 pension policies on the strength of a caller having the Name, address and date of birth of a policy holder... policy numbers were not required.

I dont want to sound like an apologist for Pearl. I have taken them to the ombudsman on behalf of clients in the past and they have done some pretty awful things (one of which resulted in the death of a client) and their admin is very often wrong (especially on pension transfers). I am just posting from the point of view of knowing how they work and dealing with them.

Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to do so. The more you tell me about Pearl the more I am inclined to believe my initial suspicions of sharp practice are true.

Pearl have a service standard to deliver documents of about 10 working days. Often that slips to 21.

Why would they have sent a letter rather than a claim form?

Forget the call centre for advice or information. Get them to send the claims form and point out that it has been requested before and not arrived and they can fast track the requested and get it to you in 5 days.

According to our experience with Pearl they can stop payment of pension funds iimmediately and at the drop of a hat. Clams forms however, and even after a second telephone conversation would not be sent to us in any other fashion than second class.

Have they written to request that or is just one of the call centre staff? If call centre, then ignore it. If they want it, they will ask for it in writing and the person sending the letter wont be the call centre person but someone in the claims team.

Yes as I mention above, Pearl has written asking that all payments made after my father's death be returned. Pearl does not tell us of any specific payments that have been made or whether any payments were made in advance or in arrears.

Would you suggest that Pearl is taking another 'business risk' in attempting to have funds paid to it that may not be owed?

It was the telephone number given on that letter that suggested to me that when I telephoned Pearl to discuss its contents I was not talking to a call centre emplyee.

Once again thanks for your interest in this and believe me I would not think that anyone who would accuse Pearl of causing a death of a client, was an apologist for Pearl.

mr.mandrake

scottishf wrote:

I just made a claim on a funeral expenses policy ....and they took about 6 weeks to pay out!!!! i had to find the funeral money from other sources until the money came through!!!! and silly me was thinking that a funeral expenses policy should pay out in time to pay for the funeral!!

scottishf,

Was this a Pearl policy?