Direct Debit Payment Taken TWICE!!!!!

C1ueless

Hi,

This must have come up before dozens of times, but I'm new to the forum and couldn't find anything! Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!!!


I had a 12 months contract and asked the bank and the gym owner to cancel the direct debit when the contract was due to end with a month's notice. However, in August, money has been taken out which shouldn't have. I went to complain to the gym owner (it is a privately owned gym), who also works there and manages it, but I couldn't really prove that she had verbally said that she would cancel it and said nothing could be done about it. I did not want to join during the month of August because I was fasting. The prices had been reduced since last year. She said she would let that run for the additional month as the payment had already been taken out from my account and then in September would put me on a new contract at the lower rate. She assured me she would cancel it. We spent so long discussing it and because it was a problem the previous month, I doubt she could deny that she did not know to cancel it. I do not keep extra money in my account because I am struggling financially and just leave enough provision for the direct debits which are due. In accordance with my old contract, a payment was (wrongly) taken out on 1st September and then on 15th (new contract). I went to the bank on the 15th when the payment was taken out and was told that due to the direct debit which was taken out by the gym on that day, I was in my overdraft and would be charged. I have never had an overdraft in my life. I've been lucky enough to scrape by and I've no idea who should be liable for my overdraft, because even though the money was taken out at the correct time the second time around, had they not taken the payment on 1st September which they did wrongly, then I wouldn't have had the overdraft charge. It was just by luck that I wnet to the bank that very same day, otherwise I would have just left it til the end of the month to put money in for the following month's direct debits, which is when I would have checked my account details, i.e., amounts taken out.

I am also a little worried because one of the gym trainers told me that this has occured umpteen times with other gym memebrs because she has not cancelled payments. I had a conversation with this same person a few days earlier who had told me to check that two payments aren't taken out, which I didn't think would happen because I had been reassured by the gym owner that the old direct debit had been cancelled and a new one was in it's place for Spetember. She told me she had advised me of this because it was such a regular occurence. She said that depending on who the gym owner is dealing with she will either pay back the money or she will try to do soemthing similar to what happened to me the month previously or say theres nothing she can do about it.

So, basically, questions in 2 parts:

1) Surely, I am within my rights to claim back the extra payment? Within what period of time should I expect that? and is it a striaght forward process? I won't have to write a letter on top, will I?

2) And secondly the overdraft charges from the direct debit, who is supposed to pay that?

Even though it was the legitimate payment which caused the overdraft, which they were authorized to take out, but my argument is had they not taken the unauthorised payment out, I wouldn't have been in the position of having an overdraft!! I can't seem to find anything in the basic account infromation for NatWest.

Please advise!!!!!!

Thank you!!!!

talana

1) Surely, I am within my rights to claim back the extra payment? Within what period of time should I expect that? and is it a striaght forward process? I won't have to write a letter on top, will I?

Go to your bank and tell them you want the payment returned under the Direct Debit Guarantee.
http://www.bacs.co.uk/Bacs/Consumers/DirectDebit/Pages/DirectDebitGuarantee.aspx

You should expect a full and immediate refund, no messing around.
Then it's up to the bank to chase the money up with the company, not your problem.

2) And secondly the overdraft charges from the direct debit, who is supposed to pay that?

Explain it to the bank and they may well refund the charges, especially if it's never happened before. First time charges they will often show good will, regardless of other issues.

Premier_2

Hi C1ueless, and welcome to MSE :hello:

In your post you indicate initially you cancelled the DDI with your bank (as well as the gym), yet you don't mention that again. It's also unclear if you really did cancel the DDI with the bank; banks wont normally accept a conditional cancellation (i.e. please cancel after such and such has occurred, in this case in a months time after the next paymeent due in August has been collected) - they will only accept immediate and unconditional cancellations. The bank should have advised you to go back after the last collection you wished to pay and then cancel the DDI.

However, if you did give a clear and unconditional cancellation to the bank, then claim the amount plus consequential losses (i.e. bank charges) from the bank under the DD guarantee. The bank would be liable.

However, if you didn't cancel with the bank, you may still be able to do so via your bank as suggested by talana. Consequential losses can also be claimed, but these wouldn't be returned in this instance until the gym paid the bank those claimed losses (typically within 14 days)
The risk here is that if the gym counter claim (as there apperars to be some doubt as to any evidence existing that you cancelled with the gym, or the exact terms of such cancellation) then the gym may recover any claimed amount from you via your bank.

C1ueless

Hi guys, thanks for the advice.

well this is the thing, I went to the bank and asked them to cancel it more than once. The first time I did it, I also had another query outstanding which I was trying to sort out, she said she would cancel it, but the next time I went to the bank it was still there. The second time when I went in and found it was still there, I asked the bank to do it again and they said they cannot cancel because if the company to which the direct debit is being paid to feels they are due money they can still take money out of your account. hence they didnt cancel it. i went to the gym owner she verbally said that it would cancel automatically because it was a 12 month contract, even though when they took the additional months payment out, which as far as i was concerned was unauthorised she startred talking about rolling contracts. the fact that she mentioned the opposite the first time makes me suspect, as the gym trainer said, she is just trying to get more money out of the gym users.


when i saw that the gym had taken out two payments on 1st and 15th, i said to the cashier at the bank that thats unauthorised and what to do, she said it had nothing to do with them at this stage and that i would first have to go to the company who has taken out the direct debit and get them to admit they have taken out unauthorised payment and then they would sort out the overdraft charges. I asked her what the normal procedure would be when the bank takes the charges out twice and overdraft charges in this situation but she just kept on going on about it not being anything to do with them and just said the same thing but louder, even though i felt she hadnt answered my question i just left it at that.

Premier_2

C1ueless wrote: »

Hi guys, thanks for the advice.

well this is the thing, I went to the bank and asked them to cancel it more than once. The first time I did it, I also had another query outstanding which I was trying to sort out, she said she would cancel it, but the next time I went to the bank it was still there. The second time when I went in and found it was still there, I asked the bank to do it again and they said they cannot cancel because if the company to which the direct debit is being paid to feels they are due money they can still take money out of your account. hence they didnt cancel it.....

What a load of nonsense by the bank staff member, they really do need more training if that is what they said

A DDI can be cancelled immediately by the bank on your authority.
Ok, the first member may have got side tracked (which would have been an error, but possibly an understandable one) The second request should have been actioned as you requested, and you should have demanded it was.

If you have online banking, you can usually cance DDIs yourself via the website.

Once cancelled, (or even if you just have evidence you asked for it to be cancelled) the bank would be liable for any payments made from your account.

The only time a payment may be made from an otherwise cancelled DDI is when the originator attempts collection of a previously unpaid collection (and the DDI was cancelled between the time of the first failed collection, and the subsequent re-attempt)

I would make a formal complaint to the bank regarding this very poor, no just plain wrong, advice you were provided with.

You could try a claim under the DD guarantee based on the suggestion you cancelled the DDI with the Originator, but as this appears to have been all verbal, I fear you can't prove that should it be necessary.

Lessons learnt.
1. Aways cancel DDIs directly with your bank (and best to advise the originator of this)
2. Don't allow a bank to not accept such instruction.
3. If in any doubt, give any instruction in writing and get a receipt (e.g. a recorded delivery confirmation)

C1ueless

Thank you very much for your advice.

Now this is what I found quite shady to begin with because I had cancelled Direct Debits before with the bank, so didn't understand what this was about-not being able to cancel my Direct Debit when I am their customer, if I request them to cancel it, they should, and shouldn't allow for payments to be made out without my authority. Altogether I went to the bank on three separate occasions. The first time was when she forgot to do it. The second time, I was told that I had to wait for the final payment due to be taken out and the final time was when I was told that even if the final payment had been taken out, the bank couldn't cancel it because even though the contract may have ended the company can always come back and take money out of your account if they felt you had outstanding payments which just didn't make logical sense to me.

The problem is that my local NatWest seems to have had a recruitment drive and every time I've spoken to somebody about this, it always seems to be one of the newbies, normally young girls who look like they're 17-20 years old. I doubt very much they would have put on the system that I asked them to cancel the direct debit as it was never done on any of the occasions I requested it to be done and I was just fobbed off. Hence, I am very sceptical as to whether my requests were ever even logged. I certainly didn't get the impression they were as the cashiers just call one customer after the pther and I'm not sure at what point the effort would have been made to update my account with my requests. So, I really don't think I can prove it.

So, from what I understand I have to go to the bank and claim the money back from them/ ask them to retrieve the money? I thought I have to go to the gym? That's what I would have done.

What are the steps I need to take for recourse?

I don't really feel very confident about this situation because I am so stressed out. I think they will just fob me off with anything as they have done in the past.

C1ueless

Hello again,

I've been to the bank and another staff member has explained to me about indemnity. However, she hasn't put it on the system but has told me to come in and speak to another member of staff who can sort it. Not sure why that's the case. I'm sure it shouldn't be.

Anyway, that got me thinking. My original contract which was £32.50 was for 12 months, as stated on my contract. When the original extra payment was taken out then surely I should have also been able to claim this on the indemnity cover also, no????

Thanks again!

Fiddlestick

C1ueless wrote: »

Hello again,

I've been to the bank and another staff member has explained to me about indemnity. However, she hasn't put it on the system but has told me to come in and speak to another member of staff who can sort it. Not sure why that's the case. I'm sure it shouldn't be.

They are being lazy.

Go back to the bank and don't leave until they process the refund.

Premier_2

C1ueless wrote: »

...
Anyway, that got me thinking. My original contract which was £32.50 was for 12 months, as stated on my contract. When the original extra payment was taken out then surely I should have also been able to claim this on the indemnity cover also, no????

Thanks again!

The Direct Debit system is only a form of payment.
It has nothing to do with the terms of any underlying contract.

Consequently, the DD Guarantee only covers a failure of the bank or the Originator to comply with the terms of the DD Scheme, not a breach of the terms of any underlying contract.