Giving up being a vegetarian

Mrs_pbradley936

I think the 8 year thing just coincides with getting a reality check. We normally start to assert ourselves and our personalities anywhere between 12 and 18. The most obvious sign being sexual maturity when we cease to wonder and begin to experiment. Just as every generation thinks it is the first to discover sex so some people think they are the first to discover ethics, morals, politics etc. They are very enthusiastic about it all and want (according to history) votes for women, to ban the bomb, legal abortions, troops out of Ireland, equal pay for equal work, outlaw foxhunting, ban on smoking in public places and so on and so on. Some people will always be on the look out for a cause to join because it gives them a sense of focus and purpose. The rest of us grow up, get a job and a mortgage, have a family and stop believing that we can change the world. We get another focus and purpose, as an example if you have toddlers you will be focusing in on if there is anything at all to this MMR scare. No toddlers? You read about it in the papers or hear it on the news but it has no great impact. Same thing with the NHS you have a loved one ill will cancer - you will be saying that XXX drug should be available. So no great mystery you have just joined the rank and file of humanity.

bluemoon_3

pbradley936 wrote:

I think the 8 year thing just coincides with getting a reality check. We normally start to assert ourselves and our personalities anywhere between 12 and 18. The most obvious sign being sexual maturity when we cease to wonder and begin to experiment.

Don't you think that goes on throughout our lives, though? If our opinions don't change and grow as each decade passes, then that means we stopped learning, thinking and listening. Otherwise we're just moany, jaded old farts.

Just as every generation thinks it is the first to discover sex so some people think they are the first to discover ethics, morals, politics etc. They are very enthusiastic about it all and want (according to history) votes for women, to ban the bomb, legal abortions, troops out of Ireland, equal pay for equal work, outlaw foxhunting, ban on smoking in public places and so on and so on. Some people will always be on the look out for a cause to join because it gives them a sense of focus and purpose.

Well, thank God for them, I say. :T :T :T

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, its the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead

The rest of us grow up, get a job and a mortgage, have a family and stop believing that we can change the world. We get another focus and purpose, as an example if you have toddlers you will be focusing in on if there is anything at all to this MMR scare. No toddlers? You read about it in the papers or hear it on the news but it has no great impact. Same thing with the NHS you have a loved one ill will cancer - you will be saying that XXX drug should be available. So no great mystery you have just joined the rank and file of humanity.

But do you really think ethical decisions always have to be based on a belief that we can change the world? Most people would agree that "the end does not justify the means" - but how often do we consider if the means need to be justified by the end?

Because that is what we are talking about here.

If I buy fairtrade coffee, it's not going to abolish unfair labour practices. If I buy food from local, independent distributors, I'm not going to topple the supermarket giants. If I choose a vegan meal, I'm not going to stop the slaughter of animals. So what's the point?

Those immature whippersnappers you spoke about did believe they could change the world. They established charities and movements, put pressure on the right places, started compassionate businesses and sometimes, just occasionally, they managed to make a small difference. And if all I've got to do is stand in the coffee aisle and make a choice between a jar of similarly priced fairtrade coffee or non-fairtrade coffee (or to choose a vegetarian meal over a factory farmed meal), then the choice for me isn't so hard.

They made it easy for us to make simple, ethical choices, even while we're busy worrying about the MMR scare or our loved ones' health. They made it easy for me to walk up the hill and put a cross in a box saying which politician I want to make decisions on my behalf (and I have more than one group of radicals to thank for this - I'm both a woman and lower class).

I have a voice. It's not very loud. I don't always speak up when I should. Most of the time it's not even heard. But even if it never, ever makes a difference (and, trust me, I don't expect to) I'll still use it. Because the moment I stop, I'm saying that my voice doesn't matter. And I sincerely hope that never happens.

So, why am I vegan? Because I can be.

jellyhead

i didn't think i could change the world but i thought that my actions added with the actions of others could, and if i did something i didn't think was ethical but just carried on, and everybody else carried on then the world would end up a terrible place. without a few veggies/people against the fur trade/people against fox hunting etc. there would be nobody to spread the word and encourage more.

if enough people do something then it will change the world. if all us MSE'ers bought fair trade coffee for example. go on

Mrs_pbradley936

I put this on a thread ages ago but have put it on here to show that I do care about human rights. I am never unkind to animals and would not condone cruelty but I just cannot see them in the same light as people. I do not wear fur but I do wear leather. I eat meat and have a goosedown duvet and I am totally comfortable with those choices.

This thread involved women of various ages comparing life.

Hello again everyone,

I am a woman, in my 50s who worked before I had children and then stayed at home until they were off hand. It is due women of my generation and older that women enjoy equal rights today. In the same way our generation was responsible for same sex relationships to be made legal (someone once told me that it was never a crime to be a lesbian, but I am not sure it that is true). I was also amongst those that refused to buy Cape fruit when the aparheid system was going on in South Africa. Women now enjoy rights they did not previously have - not just with regard to money. How would you like to have to get your husband's permission before you could go on the pill? No husband - "well then you don't need the pill then do you?" Would have been the answer you got. So believe me when I say I do not need lessons in life from well educated, well paid young women who are educated and paid because women my age worked hard to make it so. While on the topic of education I wanted to go to university but was told only "bookish" girls with no marriage prospects did that. I was far to pretty to to stay on the shelf.

bluemoon_3

pbradley936 wrote:

I put this on a thread ages ago but have put it on here to show that I do care about human rights. I am never unkind to animals and would not condone cruelty but I just cannot see them in the same light as people. I do not wear fur but I do wear leather. I eat meat and have a goosedown duvet and I am totally comfortable with those choices.

This thread involved women of various ages comparing life.

Hello again everyone,

I am a woman, in my 50s who worked before I had children and then stayed at home until they were off hand. It is due women of my generation and older that women enjoy equal rights today. In the same way our generation was responsible for same sex relationships to be made legal (someone once told me that it was never a crime to be a lesbian, but I am not sure it that is true). I was also amongst those that refused to buy Cape fruit when the aparheid system was going on in South Africa. Women now enjoy rights they did not previously have - not just with regard to money. How would you like to have to get your husband's permission before you could go on the pill? No husband - "well then you don't need the pill then do you?" Would have been the answer you got. So believe me when I say I do not need lessons in life from well educated, well paid young women who are educated and paid because women my age worked hard to make it so. While on the topic of education I wanted to go to university but was told only "bookish" girls with no marriage prospects did that. I was far to pretty to to stay on the shelf.

I do hope you don't think I was trying to give you lessons on life. I wouldn't presume to give lessons to anyone - I could do with some myself.

I have a lack of formal education myself and find that most of my learning comes from a bit of philosophical to-and-fro-ing with people of all walks of life online. It opens me up to new ideas and I hope I sometimes give others a bit of food for thought. I never intended to be accusatory or critical, if I came across that way - and in reality I don't come anywhere near my own 'ideal' standards. But I do like picking apart what those ideal standards should be. It is my fundamental belief that the decisions we make in life do matter, for their own sake - no matter what may come of them - and that is all I was trying to convey.

So, I'm going to bow out now and leave the rest of you to it. I get the feeling we'll get our knuckles rapped for going off topic if we carry on anyway.

Good luck to the OP.

Penny_Saved

Im vegetarian too and have been for ten years. I'm vegetarian because I don't believe it is necessary to eat animals to live and so for me it is wrong. If I had no choice obviously I would put my survival first, but until then although I miss the taste of meat (and will admit to the occasional slip up) I prefer to stay vegetarian.

My son, who is two, has been a vegetarian by birth, although I expect him to choose for himself when he gets older. He is very advanced according to his childminder and generally very healthy because he eats an extremely healthy diet consisting of vegetables, fruit, whole grains, quorn and cheese and milk - I'd like to get more nuts and seeds in there but he's two, and trying to make a two year old eat anything their not sure about is beyond difficult.

Anyway my point is it is possible to be a healthy veggie, my son is, I am not - well actually I've been better lately but generally my diet is appalling, and it was appalling when I ate meat too.

I can't really imagine not wanting to be a vegetarian but people do change so everyone must do what they think is right.

Oh and I agree that I alone can't change the world, but I can contribute, and I hope I do.

[Deleted User]

Hmm Quorn, originally developed as a cheap cattle feed by the petrochemical industry in the 70s, sounds good to me

coolio_2

12 days on, still loving the meat

[Deleted User]

Have you tried eating some more unusual types of meat.. kangagroo steaks, venison sausages (very rich), alligator?

Explorer the animal world!

I'd personally avoid smoked reindeer (you can buy it in ikea) as it's the foulest thing i've ever eaten.

coolio_2

ringo_24601 wrote:

Have you tried eating some more unusual types of meat.. kangagroo steaks, venison sausages (very rich), alligator?

Explorer the animal world!

I'd personally avoid smoked reindeer (you can buy it in ikea) as it's the foulest thing i've ever eaten.

im going to try and have roo burgers next week