Renting a property out without using Agents??

jtownson

Hi,

I am looking to rent out my property. Its a small apartment and as such the rent will be quite small. I have had a few quotes from agents and the fees are so high!

How easy is it to rent it out myself not using any agents? I am not reliant on the rent for anything - there is no mortgage. But not sure how to do the following:

- Marketing the property - Getting it on right move?
- Credit Checking / references with new tenants
- Setting up the tenancy agreement

Thanks

theartfullodger

jtownson wrote: »

Hi,

I am looking to rent out my property. Its a small apartment and as such the rent will be quite small. I have had a few quotes from agents and the fees are so high!

How easy is it to rent it out myself not using any agents? I am not reliant on the rent for anything - there is no mortgage. But not sure how to do the following:

- Marketing the property - Getting it on right move?
- Credit Checking / references with new tenants
- Setting up the tenancy agreement

Thanks

So what did you learn on the course you went on on how to be a landlord??

You understand that by having no mortgage you may/will probably pay more tax to that nice Mr Osborne??

jtownson

theartfullodger wrote: »

So what did you learn on the course you went on on how to be a landlord??



You understand that by having no mortgage you may/will probably pay more tax to that nice Mr Osborne??

I understand what you are saying but I was just wondering if anyone else has done it without an Agent who could advise, got to start somewhere!

Re Tax - I know I know...and then if I use an agent its more costs

mostlycheerful

Most people do it themselves, it’s generally only people with 10 or 20 properties to look after who have a sufficient volume work needing doing to justify losing 10%, 12% even 15% on agents. Many agents do little or nothing and sometimes are a complete pain in the nuts. Have a go a doing it yourself and see how you get on. You’ll probably find, as most people do, that it’s easy peasy money for nothing and on the odd occasions when you need to do something it’s not that difficult or complicated.

For paperwork if you want to you can download free 6 month ASTs off the net which technically legally is supposed to mean that you’re not supposed to chuck them out without waiting months for bits of paper off tardy incompetent unfit for purpose courts although in fact in the real world most landlords in fact just get the job done themselves and don’t allow themselves to be mugged by bad tenants. Alternatively just do it without paperwork or just a receipt for the money and then you’re in a grey area as to whether there is a tenancy or not which generally makes your life easier but can sometimes militate against you if it goes wrong and you lose your grip on your property and get ripped off by wrong’uns - or if you maintain your own presence in the place then you can call it lodging and then legally tip bad people out any time you want with little or no notice.

Choose punters carefully and don’t just take the first one off the banana boat and take bank, last landlord, job and next of kin references and check all of them thoroughly as a lot of chancers forge references and there’s a lot of fraudsters and con artists out there. Workers in suits are generally good as are German and Japanese students but beware of a lot of other sorts which I won’t list here for fear of offending people’s sensibilities but use your imagination, I’m sure you know what I mean, eg people on the dole covered in tattoos with a dog on a string are less likely to be satisfactory customers.

Read more websites like this and ask some other landlords about the subject and educate yourself about the subject and then you should be fine. Go slowly and err on the side of caution and don’t take any risks – various good solid old sayings are worth bearing in mind such as look before you leap, caveat emptor buyer beware and due diligence.

Good luck.

tbs624

mostlycheerful wrote: »

For paperwork if you want to you can download free 6 month ASTs off the net which technically legally is supposed to mean that you’re not supposed to chuck them out without waiting months for bits of paper off tardy incompetent unfit for purpose courts although in fact in the real world most landlords in fact just get the job done themselves and don’t allow themselves to be mugged by bad tenants. Alternatively just do it without paperwork or just a receipt for the money and then you’re in a grey area as to whether there is a tenancy or not which generally makes your life easier but can sometimes militate against you if it goes wrong and you lose your grip on your property and get ripped off by wrong’uns - or if you maintain your own presence in the place then you can call it lodging and then legally tip bad people out any time you want with little or no notice.

Unhelpful drivel there Mostlycheerful. No-one who has any sense downloads a fee tenancy agreement off the internet and expects it to protect them or their property.

Even if the LL doesn't offer a formal tenancy agreement, an AST will be the default. Failing to use the correct procedure for regaining possession of a tenanted property leaves a LL open to criminal charges and a civil action by the T

mostlycheerful wrote: »

Choose punters carefully and don’t just take the first one off the banana boat and take bank, last landlord, job and next of kin references

Next of kin references? It's useful for a LL to have a next of kin contact in case of the T falling seriously ill or dying but NoK references would serve no purpose whatsoever. Last LL references not always reliable - last LL (ie current LL) may want rid.

OP - you may want to sign up to Tessa Shepperson's LL Law site - tax deductible membership fee, discount of LL insurance premiums and access to much useful information. (Tessa is a solicitor who specialises in LL & T law) Tessa has a guide for new LLs and Top Tips for LLs

Read up on gas safety regs - see HSE website, read Shelter's web pages on LL & T obligations, read up on tenancy deposits (mydeposits, DPS, TDS)

You'll need a gas safety check/LLs gas safety cert for all gas appliances and an Energy Perf Certificate

See mydeposits guide for virgin LLs

Also have a trawl over at LLzone's website

mostlycheerful

“Unhelpful drivel there Mostlycheerful. No-one who has any sense downloads a fee tenancy agreement off the internet and expects it to protect them or their property.”

No, you’re wrong, there’s no advantage in paying for something that you can get for free. What you’re confused about is that agreements vary and so some may be better or worse or more or less appropriate than others. But the source or the cost are irrelevant other than that it’s always better to keep costs down – no, it’s what’s in an agreement that matters and most if not all ones available are likely to suit your purpose. You only need extra or different clauses if you have certain eventualities that you want to deal with, otherwise a simple general agreement will normally do. So have a think about what you want and research it and if you want more than what’s in the standard agreements then add your requirements. You can in fact just type up one yourself if you want, so if doing this then copy the correct legal terminology and don’t just use colloquial or layman’s terms as they may have little or no or even adverse or unexpected meaning if your agreement is tested in a dispute or in a court.

“Even if the LL doesn't offer a formal tenancy agreement, an AST will be the default.”

No, you’re wrong, law only applies when it’s asserted and applied. In the absence of assertion and application it is not asserted and doesn’t apply.

“Failing to use the correct procedure for regaining possession of a tenanted property leaves a LL open to criminal charges and a civil action by the T”

No, you’re wrong, police say it’s a “civil matter” and won’t get involved except regarding violence which they are often unable/unwilling to do anything about and court action is not practicable for most people. Re read the recent landlord’s rights thread in which you mistakenly advised a tenant illegally evicted by a thug to try to get redress through the courts and your mistake and ignorance of this matter were corrected and explained in detail and then, of course, the victim found and confirmed that it was true that police and court are not viable or useful options.

“NoK references would serve no purpose whatsoever.”

No, you’re wrong. On the contrary next of kin references serve several purposes.

First of all a competent diligent caring landlord should always have a phone number for family and or friends for the event of illness, death, injury or other acute suffering or problem of the tenant in their care and using their property.

Secondly it lets the tenant know that the new landlord now knows the address and phone number of their (normally) parents and has spoken to them and or even written to them, if doing full due diligence, and that therefore any problems may be flagged to them. Tenants are therefore slightly less likely to renege on their obligations if they know that this may cause an embarrassing phone call to their parents chasing them up and or asking for help or payment.

Thirdly it’s also beneficial to the landlord as with this reference the landlord has the added reassurance that another fact has been checked and was confirmed as true and that there is a line of communication available should things go wrong.

Fourthly anyone who refuses to give a next of kin reference or whose reference doesn’t check out is immediately suspect.

So, on the contrary, it can be useful, and sometimes very useful, and especially for a first time landlord.

“Last LL references not always reliable - last LL (ie current LL) may want rid.”

That’s true but that’s not the point. For a novice landlord and indeed any landlord it can be helpful to get a response from the previous landlord and hear what they say. If they say the prospective tenant is good then that’s reassuring to hear. However, if they say that the prospect is in rent arrears or is a bad tenant in other ways then the OP – and any landlord - may want to take note of that and ask the prospective tenant to explain which possibly may reveal whether or not the tenant or previous landlord were at fault or whether neither of them were particularly blame worthy. Also if the tenant refuses to give a previous landlord reference then that is cause for suspicion. A good professional tenant not in rent arrears or dispute will happily give this reference which then checks out. A dodgy person may not. So, yes, correct, “not always reliable” but nevertheless usually probably worth asking for if you want to be careful and if it’s your first attempt at renting out a place.

Another reference to consider requesting, if new to the game and wanting to be sure, and particularly with foreigners, is to ask for a photocopy of their passport. An honest decent open minded professional prospective tenant will mostly likely be happy to supply this and glad that you are obviously being careful and official, a dodgy one or one with something to hide may refuse - so the former will set your mind at rest, the latter will possibly be cause for concern.

Some landlords take references but others don’t bother. If the tenants seem ok and pay their month’s rent in advance and deposit efficiently then generally that’s all that counts and matters. But for someone cautious and unsure and doing this for the first time it probably makes sense to do this bit of effort of getting all the references and checking them all as it may be of help. It only takes a small amount of time and work and it might be of benefit so you might as well. And to an extent it will set your mind at rest if the all the refs check out and are good. Or if they’re bad or absent then it straight away highlights possible problems. And getting references and then checking them is a useful exercise to experience and understand and get under your belt at least once even if later you decide to dispense with them as unnecessary.

“Read up on gas safety regs - see HSE website, read Shelter's web pages on LL & T obligations…You'll need a gas safety check/LLs gas safety cert for all gas appliances”

If you don’t have gas then of course this doesn’t apply but if you do have gas then, yes, correct, it’s a serious issue as if your appliance(s) give off CO (carbon monoxide) then people can get killed and there are lots of deaths all over the world every year from this.

“read up on tenancy deposits (mydeposits, DPS, TDS)”

As a first timer you may decide to adhere to legislation regarding deposits but many regular landlords don’t bother and it’s rarely an issue or of any importance.

“an Energy Perf Certificate”

No, you’re wrong, not necessary. That’s for buying and selling properties, not for rentals.

Some other advice to consider is to do an inventory of everything in the property and some people even taken photos so the quality can be proved. And if you want to go the full nine yards and cover yourself some more then at the start you can also give a copy of the inventory to the tenants which also means that they know of your list and have agreed it – or they can raise points about it in the first few weeks if there are any issues arising. Probably sensible to make the effort to do this for your first go but, again, a lot of regular landlords don’t bother.

For marketing the place there are lots of free websites and also pay ones but normally the free ones will do the job. Shop windows and supermarkets are cheap to put an ad in. Word of mouth sometimes finds good people so definitely spread the word around everywhere you go.

theartfullodger

MostlyC...

Sigh!....

Dunno what you're on ...

e.g. re...

“Even if the LL doesn't offer a formal tenancy agreement, an AST will be the default.”

No, you’re wrong, law only applies when it’s asserted and applied. In the absence of assertion and application it is not asserted and doesn’t apply.

Err, no AST it is, Housing Act 1988, HA 1996 etc & Street vs Mountford etc etc...

tbs624

mostlycheerful wrote: »

No, you’re wrong, there’s no advantage in paying for something that you can get for free. .......... You can in fact just type up one yourself if you want, so if doing this then copy the correct legal terminology and don’t just use colloquial or layman’s terms as they may have little or no or even adverse or unexpected meaning if your agreement is tested in a dispute or in a court.

Yep, of course you can type up your own agreement, get a copy off a bloke in a pub, grab one off a website. You miss the point, which was that it's foolish to expect these to protect you as a LL. A LL can put whatever he likes in his/her tenancy agreement but when they need to rely on that agreement they'll find that it's up for challenge and the holes are gaping.

mostlycheerful wrote: »

“Even if the LL doesn't offer a formal tenancy agreement, an AST will be the default.”

No, you’re wrong, law only applies when it’s asserted and applied. In the absence of assertion and application it is not asserted and doesn’t apply.

Nope, you're still talking twaddle -see Artful's correction of you on this one

mostlycheerful wrote: »

“Failing to use the correct procedure for regaining possession of a tenanted property leaves a LL open to criminal charges and a civil action by the T”

No, you’re wrong, police say it’s a “civil matter” and won’t get involved except regarding violence which they are often unable/unwilling to do anything about and court action is not practicable for most people.....

No sweetheart, you're wrong. The police are sometimes erroneous in their actions but that does not change the *law*

mostlycheerful wrote: »

Re read the recent landlord’s rights thread in which you mistakenly advised a tenant illegally evicted by a thug to try to get redress through the courts and your mistake and ignorance of this matter were corrected and explained in detail and then, of course, the victim found and confirmed that it was true that police and court are not viable or useful options.

MC - I don't advise, except to those who pay for it. On here, I suggest. I suggested the correct course of action,the key to which was "speak to a legally qualified professional" - the poster hasn't posted a follow up on his progress yet

mostlycheerful wrote: »

“NoK references would serve no purpose whatsoever.”

No, you’re wrong. On the contrary next of kin references serve several purposes.

First of all a competent diligent caring landlord should always have a phone number for family and or friends for the event of illness, death, injury or other acute suffering or problem of the tenant in their care and using their property.

Yep, a point which I covered in my previous response, but a T giving aLL that info that does not constitute "a reference"

mostlycheerful wrote: »

Secondly it lets the tenant know that the new landlord now knows the address and phone number of their (normally) parents and has spoken to them and or even written to them, if doing full due diligence, and that therefore any problems may be flagged to them. Tenants are therefore slightly less likely to renege on their obligations if they know that this may cause an embarrassing phone call to their parents chasing them up and or asking for help or payment.

I think most adult Ts would not give two hoots about what a LL said to their parents. The parents responsibility for their offspring ceases at 18 years, unless the parents are acting as guarantors , in which case their info would be on the app form

mostlycheerful wrote: »

Thirdly it’s also beneficial to the landlord as with this reference the landlord has the added reassurance that another fact has been checked and was confirmed as true and that there is a line of communication available should things go wrong.

Fourthly anyone who refuses to give a next of kin reference or whose reference doesn’t check out is immediately suspect.

You clearly don't understand the term "reference". Someone not wanting to give a LL NoK details is not suspect at all unless you are from the land of Mostlycheerful. There is no obligation on a T to do so.

mostlycheerful wrote: »

“Last LL references not always reliable - last LL (ie current LL) may want rid.”

That’s true but that’s not the point. For a novice landlord and indeed any landlord it can be helpful to get a response from the previous landlord and hear what they say. If they say the prospective tenant is good then that’s reassuring to hear.

:rotfl: It is precisely the point. Any LL who wants to make sure that their troublesome T goes on time will be only too happy to embellish the truth to the next LL. How about " Anyone who gets this person as a paying tenant would be extremely lucky"

mostlycheerful wrote: »

Another reference to consider requesting, if new to the game and wanting to be sure, and particularly with foreigners, is to ask for a photocopy of their passport.

Not a reference, a form of photo ID. Bear in mind that some folk don't have a passport. (Some Ts may want a photocopy of the LLs passport too, so that the T can be sure that the LL is who s/he say s/he is.)

mostlycheerful wrote: »

Some landlords take references but others don’t bother. If the tenants seem ok and pay their month’s rent in advance and deposit efficiently then generally that’s all that counts and matters.

No, it isn't all that matters. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book to turn up in a suit, look respectable & sound plausible, and pay up those two items in cash, then once in the property cease paying and sit tight until a court order sees you booted out.

mostlycheerful wrote: »

“Read up on gas safety regs - see HSE website, read Shelter's web pages on LL & T obligations…You'll need a gas safety check/LLs gas safety cert for all gas appliances”

If you don’t have gas then of course this doesn’t apply but if you do have gas then, yes, correct,

Thanks for clearing that one up, otherwise known as STBO:D Who would have guessed that you don't need a GSC if there are no gas appliances?

mostlycheerful wrote: »

“read up on tenancy deposits (mydeposits, DPS, TDS)”

As a first timer you may decide to adhere to legislation regarding deposits but many regular landlords don’t bother and it’s rarely an issue or of any importance.

I think Ts would disagree with you and so would the LL who finds he can't serve a valid s21 notice on his T and gets slapped with a court case involving paying the T a 3x the deposit amount as a penalty, plus court costs.

mostlycheerful wrote: »

“an Energy Perf Certificate”

No, you’re wrong, not necessary. That’s for buying and selling properties, not for rentals.

Hold a mirror up and say "you're wrong". EPC's are required for tenanted properties and must be shown before T signs up. European Directive and all that. Prosecution from TSO if not provided. Here you are:

Under Article 7 of the The European Directive on the Energy Performance of Buildings (EPBD) any building which is sold, rented out or constructed must have an Energy Performance Certifi cate (EPC).

Let me guess - a new set of MC Land of mistaken "you're wrongs" to come along?:rotfl:

mostlycheerful wrote: »

Some other advice to consider is to do an inventory of everything in the property and some people even taken photos so the quality can be proved. And if you want to go the full nine yards and cover yourself some more then at the start you can also give a copy of the inventory to the tenants which also means that they know of your list and have agreed it

A LL is not covering himself at all *unless* the T has sight of the inventory and signs it off

mostlycheerful wrote: »

Probably sensible to make the effort to do this for your first go but, again, a lot of regular landlords don’t bother.

How many LLs do you know MC? Having a good inventory in place protects *all* parties and the lack of one very definitely weakens a LLs case if there are dilapidations.

G_M

Quite honestly I see no point in engaging in debate with the rubbish spouted by Mostlycheerfull.

Just advise the OP to read his advice/views with caution.

OP: tbs624 and artfullodger (and clutton if he shows up) DO know what they are talking about......

As for DIY landlording. Yes, no reason not to do it as long as you know what you're doing and have the time.

The are literally 100s of regulations governing letting of properties. If you are going down this route, you must learn what's what. Read Tessa Shepperson's book, look at Shelter's website, and Landlordzone, join a landlords association, learn what is involved.

A few bits of advice from this site like 'you need proper landlord's insurance' is just scratching the surface.