Help - JPA error but I have to pay

macdonald135

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone with legal knowledge could help me. I have been told I have to pay back to the Army £2200. This is due to a JPA error when my job title was changed. JPA made me move up an increment level and so made my wage go up. This happened in August 2008 and JPA has only just realised and told me I must pay this back. They said I can either pay a minimum of £150 a month or up to a maximum of £220 till its paid off. I have refused to pay this money back because I feel that this is not a mistake on my part. I spoke to the senior finance clerk who was dealing with this and they said it would probably be a waste of time objecting to paying this and also if I looked for legal advice I should be careful and not spend too much money just in case I lose. Also they said that I should pay the money back because I received it in good faith, but I did not even know I was being overpaid! I have kept all papers that I have received and I have all pay statements. On one of the official papers I received it even states that it was an error by JPA, so surely I must not have to pay this if they are accepting they made the error. Does anyone know where I stand with this? Will I have to pay this? And if I do, what is the minimum amount I can pay?

Thanks

McKneff

They paid you money that you were not entitled to, yes, someone made a mistake
No different to civvy st. You have to pay it back, even though you were unaware of it.
Negotiate a payment plan, they cannot demand a set amount. What can they do, take you to court, no point,
It will go in your favour and it will be what you can afford, not what they want.
Sorry,

macdonald135

Well if they come back to me and say I must pay, then I will offer them 10 quid a month. I know they will kick off then, but I dont see why its taken them 2 years to realise their mistake!

peteuk

Tough to say but were is the error.....them for paying you the extra or yours for not looking at your wage slip and noticing it.

Now if you did notice it and told them, then I would say you would have a stronger case for not paying them back....but evertime I read station orders it clearly states it is the serviceman/womens responibility to check there wagers/pay statement and at the earliest oppertunity alert the admin staff of any errors.

If they had constantly under paid you, you would have informed them of that.

However to aid you in repayment it used to be that they could only take upto a maximum of 3 days pay out of your wage per month. I know this might have changed.

But the bottom line is, who evers fault it is or isnt, you owe them the money! Sorry.

coldstreamalways

What would you want to happen if it had worked the other way round? £10 a month? Thought not. Lots of people are in the same situation with this JPA audit, the money isn't yours and (depending on where you are in the food chain) I would probably just make the arrangements to pay it off quietly without making too much of a fuss and going on orders several times when the end result will be the same.

zyonchaos

Unfortunately mate you are up the creek doesnt matter who messed up. All they see is you have been payed too much and you owe them money. As was said above they can only take a maximum of either 3 or 4 days pay unless it has changed (speak to your Chf Clk not HR Clk) if this is more than you can reasonably afford to lose out of your wages again speak to the chf clk and show him the proof of why you cant afford this. Unfortunately needing the money to go on the lash isnt a good excuse which is a shame lol. Wish we could help more

Alias_Omega

You need to take a look at -

JSP 754 Chapter 2, Section 6 - RECOVERY OF ITEMS FROM PAY (EXCEPT ADVANCES)

Para 02.0606 (b) and associated Paragraphs.


Regards,

Alias

oscardog

Ignore replies saying you have to way out other than to pay. (Sorry to sound blunt to those who posted them).

I appealed against an overpayment of an allowance that went into my pay for 2 years and won, they wrote it off (about £1800). It can be done as I heartly recommend what A_O says above and get your nose into the regulations.

Good faith is not a defence but there are other legal requirements such as estoppel and hardship which can mean you do not have to repay the money.

It took me months but it can be done. Good luck.

macdonald135

zyonchaos wrote: »

Unfortunately mate you are up the creek doesnt matter who messed up. All they see is you have been payed too much and you owe them money. As was said above they can only take a maximum of either 3 or 4 days pay unless it has changed (speak to your Chf Clk not HR Clk) if this is more than you can reasonably afford to lose out of your wages again speak to the chf clk and show him the proof of why you cant afford this. Unfortunately needing the money to go on the lash isnt a good excuse which is a shame lol. Wish we could help more

BTW the money would not be for going on the lash! I have two kids that I provide for!

Alias_Omega

MacDonald135,

I would have a read of the JSP quoted above, and speak to the head of your HR Admin section to discuss your options. The maximum i can see is 4x days pay per month, until the debt is repaid. I do not know what OR status, or which level you are on, so i cannot comment on what i would expect to see deducted from your pay.

If you look at JSP 754, Chapter 1, Section 3, you will notice that it begins to discuss the appeals procedure which you can take if your not happy.

Though i have noticed that "APPENDIX 2 TO ANNEX C TO SECTION 3 TO CHAPTER 1" states at the bottom -

FACTORS TO BE CONSIDERED BY UNIT HR ADMIN STAFF

7. Overpayments. There will be instances in which overpayments occur. However, the general rule is that the Service person will be required to repay any overpayments, irrespective of whether it was received in ‘good faith’.

Note - I really don't like putting quotes from the JSP's, as over time the JSP's will be ammended, but my posts wont.


Hope this helps, keep us updated.

Regards,

Alias

oscardog

Did you or anyone else ever question the pay or raise it during any check? If you did then that will help your case. This was one of the key factors in me winning as there were records of me questioning the allowance. As they did not stop it that sets a legal precedent.

You need a water-tight case to beat the system but as I said before, it can be done.