Self Assessment - UTR

Tayus

Hi,

I currently rent out two properties and need to pay tax on the rent that I receive. I filled in a SA1 form about four weeks ago but have still not heard anything? I rang up HMRC yesterday and they said that they didnt have a record of me sending anything in? However, the chap on the phone was trying to talk me through setting it up online even though I told him I needed my UTR to do this (which I havent got!!) He even went as far as to say that I should register as self employed (which I am not).

Can anyone advise me how else I can get my UTR or should I just call them back today?

Many Thanks

Pennywise

4 weeks wait to answer a letter is nothing in the HMRC La-La land. More normal is 2-3 months to deal with correspondence.

All you can do is phone again to try to get an adviser with a better idea of the rules who can hopefully action your request for a SA number. It really is hit & miss as to who answers your call - some are very good and know their stuff - sadly a lot of them think they know it all and aren't prepared to be proved wrong and hence spend their days telling people duff information.

I know your frustration. I've just spent four months trying to get a UTR for a new client of mine and hit exactly the same problem. I wrote in and they wrote back saying an SA return wasn't required so they wouldn't tell me the UTR. I phoned several times to be told the same thing. It was only when I escalated to formal complaint by writing to the local director that I received the UTR - I've also secured compensation from them for my wasted time that the client had to pay for and a written apology from them confirming I was right all along!

What too many so-called HMRC "advisers" don't know (and won't listen) is that anyone can complete and submit a SA return, whether they meet the HMRC "criteria" or not, and as you have every right to submit an SA return, they have to give you a UTR number. For some unfathomable reason, some HMRC staff take it upon themselves to try to persuade people not to do SA if the criteria isn't met - they don't seem to realise that SA is the only option for people wanting to do their tax returns online!

chrismac1

Join the club. I have 2 different clients who've each taken over 3 months just to get issued with a UTR. I now tell clients to expect to wait 2 months at least just to get this number. Keep trying, keep records of who you spoke to, which location, which time and what they said and you'll maybe get enough evidence to embarass them into sorting it out.

chrismac1

I realise I may come accross as harsh calling people numpties, but really... How hard can it be?

Someone calls up asking for a 10 digit number so they can pay the country more tax - how hard can it be to say "yes, I'll sort that for you."?

Tayus

I just rang them up again and after about ten minutes the chap on the line had sorted it for me! (hopefully?!) He is sending me out a tax return in the post.

dori2o

chrismac1 wrote: »

I realise I may come accross as harsh calling people numpties, but really... How hard can it be?

Someone calls up asking for a 10 digit number so they can pay the country more tax - how hard can it be to say "yes, I'll sort that for you."?

It's not the people on the phone that are the problem you biggotted !!!!.

Anyone can call and say I have income from x and need a tax return. Assuming the criteria is met a referral is then sent as per the current process for another office to set up the record and issue the SA250.

So, it's not the 'numpties' fault at all, they have done as you have requested. None of those people on the phone can set up a SA record. Why, because the management at HMRC are too stupid to realise that it may actually save time and money by allowing those on the fromnt line to have more scope.

chrismac1

You and I both know the system, dori. For those who don't it is a disaster and the people on the so-called helplines are often very unhelpful.

If I could phone up and ask for a UTR for a new client, great no problem - but of course I have no authority to do so, so forget it. The client must make the call, now the trouble starts, especially where the client is an HMRC novice and expects decent - or even just better than totally rubbish - customer service.

One client who has struggled is a qualified doctor. Maybe if you get injured or sick you'll be relying on him to save your life. But even with coaching from me he's struggled to get through the "helplines" to reach the UTR stage, because up to now he's been 100% PAYE.

Pennywise

dori2o wrote: »

Assuming the criteria is met

Case in point. The criteria don't have to be met. Any taxpayer has the right to submit an SA return if they want to. In fact, many taxpayers want to because it's the only way of being able to by-pass the paper mountain as HMRC can't accept R40s online. It's hit and miss whether the numptie at the HMRC call centre understands this - most times they say what you're implying - i.e. you don't fit the criteria, so we can't do it - absolute rubbish. If you really think that you can't issue a UTR/SA without the criteria being met, and if you're telling callers that, then I think you need to check what you're saying as you're wrong.

slinga

dori2o wrote: »

It's not the people on the phone that are the problem you biggotted !!!!.

Anyone can call and say I have income from x and need a tax return. Assuming the criteria is met a referral is then sent as per the current process for another office to set up the record and issue the SA250.

So, it's not the 'numpties' fault at all, they have done as you have requested. None of those people on the phone can set up a SA record. Why, because the management at HMRC are too stupid to realise that it may actually save time and money by allowing those on the fromnt line to have more scope.

'biggotted' ?

Strange word to use.

Is there a difference between a numpty and a stupid person?

dori2o

Pennywise wrote: »

Case in point. The criteria don't have to be met. Any taxpayer has the right to submit an SA return if they want to. In fact, many taxpayers want to because it's the only way of being able to by-pass the paper mountain as HMRC can't accept R40s online. It's hit and miss whether the numptie at the HMRC call centre understands this - most times they say what you're implying - i.e. you don't fit the criteria, so we can't do it - absolute rubbish. If you really think that you can't issue a UTR/SA without the criteria being met, and if you're telling callers that, then I think you need to check what you're saying as you're wrong.

Your quite right, however the majority of people who call, unless they are self employed, want to know IF they need to complete a return so therefore the criteria does apply, If they WANT to fill in a return then that's fine, we'll arrange for the relevant office to set up the record and send one

As for getting through the MASS of paperwork,why don't those who are PAYE phone up and do their repayments over the phone, simple?

Despite what most accountants will tell you (in order to increase their fees) not all repayment claims have to be done on a R40, or Tax Return. Thats just the accountants way of getting the most money from their clients.

As for those who do complete R40's, in the most cases they would not be required if people took responsibility for their own affairs and actually asked the bank for the R85 form and had their interest paid gross in cases where they have no tax liability.

Just because someone on the phone can not give you the UTR on the phone there and then does not make them a numpty, it simply means their hands are tied by the stupid processes that are in place.

As for the claim that as an accountant you cannot request a tax return for a new client, yes you can. Either by completing a 64-8 and a SA1/CWF1.

Or

For those that need a return for something other than self employment, call the dedicated line and treat the call as though you are a 3rd party, in this case we can accept information from any 3rd party so long as nothing from the record is disclosed and the resulting correspondence is issued to the customer.

In my day to day dealings I find that agents like to make a fuss out of absolutely nothing, and in most cases, it is they that are at fault.

chrismac1

This is drivel. The 64-8 is a manual form, so we all know where that goes - into the 13 week mail queue also known as the Bermuda Triangle of HMRC. Any agent worth his or her salt wants to deal with HMRC electonically as much as humanly possible, so we have undeniable evidence of this for 2 reasons:

1. HMRC will not deny receipt.
2. Our client knows who has acted professionally and who has not.