Great 'Unpleasant issues of age chat' Hunt

John_Pierpoint

randplp wrote: »

cliveoram wrote: »

Stories like that of Heather Bateman whose husband Michael was left in a coma following a road accident really make people realise just how difficult, distressing and expensive life can be when arrangements are not put in place to deal with life's tragedies. Putting your affairs in order not only makes it easier for your loved ones when you are not there but actually helps you to plan ahead with confidence and with better information about your financial status.

I have a friend who's husband died suddenly and young (31). She was left with no access to his money and a father-in-law who didn't like her. Because there was no will he (father-in-law) inherited everything leaving her and their daughter on the streets. Not sure if that would happen these days (it was 30ish years ago) but it must be best to make sure everything is in order as soon as children arrive - no matter the age you are. :think:

The law has problems catching up with:
- Modern personal relationships (ie co-habitation not marriage).
- Medical technology.

Those not in a legally recognised relationship have no claim on the estate of someone who has died, the intestacy rules are still based on "blood" relationships. However medical DNA technology can now demonstrate a child's relationship to its biological father, whereas 40 years ago a man could deny paternity and technology could offer blood groups as proof of non paternity in some cases.

As far as inheritance goes married women and children have the laws of intestacy (wife gets the first £250k and a life interest in half the remainder - children get half of everything over £250k and must wait until their mother dies for the other half of their father's estate over £250k).
If the husband makes a will, and tries to cut out his wife and children, they have 6 months, from the grant of probate, in which to challenge the will by claiming dependency:
http://www.forsters.co.uk/cmsfiles/pdf/EJE_JW_PCB_Feb07.pdf

The ability of medical science to keep people "artificially" alive is causing problems for their relatives so we should all have created a power of attorney, just in case this situation should happen to us.
Unfortunately the procedures are relatively complex and expensive and require the involvement of a government department, for something that is unlikely to be needed.

The only recent updating of the law to take account of modern medical realities, that I have noticed, is the provision that means a murderer is still a murderer, even when the victim takes more than a year to die.

slopemaster

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

The law has problems catching up with:
- Modern personal relationships (ie co-habitation not marriage).
- Medical technology.

Yes, absolutely.

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

the intestacy rules are still based on "blood" relationships. However medical DNA technology can now demonstrate a child's relationship to its biological father...

I know what you mean here about blood relations, but it's more complicated than that because an adopted child does count as a blood relation - but the ramifications of it all seem quite unclear to me.

In my immediate family we have one person who was legally adopted at age 5 but continues to have relationships with his birth family, and another who was born illegitimate but later 'informally adopted' by her step-dad when her mother married - but also continues to have a relationship with her biological father and his family!

(And we surely can't be that unusual. Of course it was quite common in the past for children to be brought up believing that their grandmother was their mother...)

So, even with Wills rather than the rules of intestacy, it is quite hard to be sure that things will go to the right person when you say 'my sonX' or 'my grand-daughter Y' or 'my wife's cousinZ'!!!

John_Pierpoint

Yes I think it was about 1928 when adoption became legal (before that the arrangements informal or a civil matter). The adopted acquired the same rights as a "blood" relative in the same situation.

When there are step relationships and adopted children (now with a dual family, since the right to discover biological parentage), such a family needs
wills and trustworthy executors.

ukmaggie45

chrismale wrote: »

I also saw a warning recently about 'free' will writers putting their firm in the will as executors of the estate, and then charging huge percentages of the estate or tens of thousands to do the work when the person dies! Beware!

Solicitors do that too. Take a look at my horrendously long thread which I should update, as over 5 years since my Mother's death it's still an ongoing saga! :eek: At some time I will update it, but currently I'm losing the will to live over it all! Meanwhile my parents' ashes are still sitting in the Funeral Home as can't face doing anything with them until I get some sort of closure on all the ghastly money stuff.

Cookiepops

Im glad I found this thread. I saw the advert about free wills month but its too late now. My Mum and Dad are both in their 50's, have their own home etc... In recent years we have lost both my husbands parents and this has taught us a lot about making a will. I have asked my parents if they have one and they say no as their situation comes under the 'standard' (I think they mean the rules of intestacy). My Mum said it will go to the other one and then will be passed on 50/50 to my sister and I.
But, reading some info about free wills month, the penny suddenly dropped for me. I don't think I would be legally recognised as my dads daughter. He is not my biological Dad, so not on my birth certificate and he didnt adopt me. He married my Mum when I was 3 or 4. They went on to have my sister. All my life my sister and I have been brought up exactly the same so thats why I dont think anyone would realise. In fact, I tried to join the forces when I was 17 and I wasn't legally recognised as I had taken on my Dads surname, but as he hadn't adopted me, I had to go and get my name changed legally by deed pool before I could join up.

So, am I effectively a step daughter in the eyes of the law? I really don't care about what Im entitled to, it would just be a horrible thing to go through whilst grieving for my parent and I dont know what it mean in terms of me and my sister being able to sort out the estate together (ie. would I be able to do anything at all or would it all be down to my sister?).

If I am correct, I will have to speak to my Mum, won't be easy but hopefully it will make her think about making a will.

Any advice much appreciated.

Errata

I was in the same position as you, my mum's second husband never adopted me. The solicitor explained I was no more related to my 'dad' than he was and would inherit nothing if 'dad' didn't make a will which clearly stated he was bequeathing 'whatever' to 'my full name'.
HTH and you can explain it to both your mum and her husband.

margaretclare

Cookiepops wrote: »

Im glad I found this thread. I saw the advert about free wills month but its too late now. My Mum and Dad are both in their 50's, have their own home etc... In recent years we have lost both my husbands parents and this has taught us a lot about making a will. I have asked my parents if they have one and they say no as their situation comes under the 'standard' (I think they mean the rules of intestacy). My Mum said it will go to the other one and then will be passed on 50/50 to my sister and I.
But, reading some info about free wills month, the penny suddenly dropped for me. I don't think I would be legally recognised as my dads daughter. He is not my biological Dad, so not on my birth certificate and he didnt adopt me. He married my Mum when I was 3 or 4. They went on to have my sister. All my life my sister and I have been brought up exactly the same so thats why I dont think anyone would realise. In fact, I tried to join the forces when I was 17 and I wasn't legally recognised as I had taken on my Dads surname, but as he hadn't adopted me, I had to go and get my name changed legally by deed pool before I could join up.

So, am I effectively a step daughter in the eyes of the law? I really don't care about what Im entitled to, it would just be a horrible thing to go through whilst grieving for my parent and I dont know what it mean in terms of me and my sister being able to sort out the estate together (ie. would I be able to do anything at all or would it all be down to my sister?).

If I am correct, I will have to speak to my Mum, won't be easy but hopefully it will make her think about making a will.

Any advice much appreciated.

Yes, as the man you know as Dad married your Mum but didn't adopt you, isn't your biological Dad, he's your stepfather.

When you make a will, if there are stepchildren/step-grandchildren involved it's necessary to name them. This comes to the fore in the increasingly-common scenario of second marriages, where each of the spouses has children/grandchildren from a previous marriage. Otherwise, what happens is that the phrase 'I leave to my children' means biological children and they are the only ones who inherit. Under the rules of intestacy stepchildren come nowhere. With stepchildren you have to put in the will 'I leave to my stepdaughter Jane Bloggs and my step-grandson John Bloggs'.

We've had to do this, to make sure we were being fair to everybody. And my DH tells me that when he married his first wife, who already had 2 children, he adopted them.

John_Pierpoint

I have done a little bit of genealogy and turned up the daughter of my great great grand father's sister, living in the household of GG grandfather
Back in the 1840's this baby's mother died (probably from the complications of childbirth?) and the girl inherited £75 under the laws of intestacy, as the only child of the deceased.
In those days, what we now call inheritance tax, was due on the massive sum of £75 (I suppose it was about 2 years wages for a tied farm labourer?).
The tax return form was similar to a folded sheet of A3 making pages 1 - 4 including the instructions.
The tax varied from 1% to 10% depending on the beneficiaries relationship with the deceased. Offspring paid the lowest rate of 1%.
So uncle GGF toddled off to the local administrative centre and paid the 15 shillings (£0.75) and got his form receipted. Six months later he was recalled to pay £6-15-0 , being the balance of £7-10-0 (£7.50) owing and the for had been endorsed in the "relationship to the deceased": being the illegitimate daughter .

So then just like now you had to get your paperwork in order!

Cookiepops

margaretclare wrote: »

Yes, as the man you know as Dad married your Mum but didn't adopt you, isn't your biological Dad, he's your stepfather.

When you make a will, if there are stepchildren/step-grandchildren involved it's necessary to name them. This comes to the fore in the increasingly-common scenario of second marriages, where each of the spouses has children/grandchildren from a previous marriage. Otherwise, what happens is that the phrase 'I leave to my children' means biological children and they are the only ones who inherit. Under the rules of intestacy stepchildren come nowhere. With stepchildren you have to put in the will 'I leave to my stepdaughter Jane Bloggs and my step-grandson John Bloggs'.

We've had to do this, to make sure we were being fair to everybody. And my DH tells me that when he married his first wife, who already had 2 children, he adopted them.

Thank you, its as I suspected. I think the penny hadn't dropped because although technically I'm his stepdaughter, its not a second marriage and i don't know a life before him. My biological father died when I was a baby and my Dad has been in my life since I was about 3.

Lesleyab

Talk about it when you are young and write a will then, it's an easy subject when death seems so far away. It is essential to have one if you have children. Putting aside the financial issues who would you want to bring your children up if you both died in a car accident? Just because you assume your sister might for example, doesn't mean she will able to without you expressing your wishes in a will. You owe it to everyone you leave behind to make life as simple for everyone as possible. Also, if you live together and haven't made a will your assets could end up going to an estranged relative instead of your loved one. With this in mind the conversation is a practical one not an emotive one and the sooner you have it the easier it is. My husband and I made our first will after our child was born (and if I knew what I know now it would have been a lot earlier- I shudder to think what would have happened if he had died before we married as I had given up my career and had joined him in his business without any paperwork.)
We update the will every five years or and as it has always been a practical conversation we speak freely about it with our son but with no sense of impending doom. Now that we are heading towards retirement age the conversation about a power of attorney was a simple one because of openness on the subject over the years and we have both made one - without the use of a solicitor. (the LPA that is, we did use a solicitor for our will)