Noise between flats

Person_one

Inspired by another thread...

Is there a way to tell before moving in if a flat has thin walls/likely to have noise issues?

I'm in the process of buying one, and I've viewed it in the middle of the day both in the week and at the weekend, but I've not been there in the evening yet. I haven't heard anything so far, but I'm worried now!

bigbigmamamoo

Go when you expect the upstairs neighbours will be in and have a friend ring their door bells and ask questions.

Victorian tenements tend to be better than conversions or modern purpose built ones

olly300

Person_one wrote: »

Is there a way to tell before moving in if a flat has thin walls/likely to have noise issues?

I don't know what type of flat you are buying a conversion or in a block but I generally look at:

1. Age - avoid any flat built or converted between 1980 and 2003. Noise regulations came in 2000 because of the conversions done in the 1980s with poor sound insulation. Old flats can have sound problems but this is normally minimised by their design (see below) and building materials.

2. Design - make sure there is a maximum of one adjoining wall with neighbours. Also make sure that bedrooms are over bedrooms of the other flat whether it's below or above you , etc. If the floors are concrete then you will have less of a problem with noise and being blamed for causing it with your neighbour above or below you.

3. Flooring - if your flat has hard flooring i.e. floor boards or laminate in the bedrooms or living room then avoid as it means your neighbours are allowed it too. (Kitchen and bathrooms are allowed) Virtually all leases have a clause in them saying you can't disturb your neighbours even if the type of flooring isn't forbidden.

4. Rental - are the flats/house around you rented out? And who are they rented to? Home owners, while they can be a pain, generally try and get on with their neighbours. If the flats are rented out on ASTs then you can easily end up with neighbours who don't give a damn about whether they disturb you and the landlord might not either. If the tenants are social tenants then you need to find out the policy of the organisation who placed them there. Find out by talking to people and googling including for news stories to see if they are any good. Some are very good at evicting trouble makers others aren't.

5. Type of people who live in the neighbourhood - who lives in the building and next door? Those in their late teens and 20s will cause noise by playing music etc particularly if they aren't working. Children will cause noise by just being children but they tend to go to bed early. On the other hand old people and other professionals will complain about you causing noise problems if your life pattern doesn't fit in with theirs.

However you shouldn't forget about external noise.

I'm sure you said you were a night worker (some where ) but how is your road used? Is there any long term building work going on.

Also just another tip when buying a flat, if it's in a block, buy one in a block without a lift.

neverdespairgirl

olly300 wrote: »

Also just another tip when buying a flat, if it's in a block, buy one in a block without a lift.

Do you say that because of noise, or expense on the service charge, or some other reason?

Lifts can be very useful indeed - especially if you have a small child or are several floors up.

Nick_Stone

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Is there a way to tell before moving in if a flat has thin walls/likely to have noise issues?

[/QUOTE]

The short answer to your question is 'No'. I have recent experience of four different kinds of flats (two old listed buildings in Bath, a modern Barratt block, and a converted mill) and each one had noise problems. The real problem is that even if most tenants are quiet, you only need one anti-social one to ruin the ambience of the whole place.

Bear in mind that noise travels in different directions and the latest sound systems and home cinemas can make your life a misery. Reading the lease won't help. Most have stringent rules but try phoning up your management agent to try to enforce one and you will find it isn't that easy. It costs money to investigate complaints and the money will come from the management charge which everyone else has to pay for. Nobody likes to see their charges rack up, consequently most management companies try to avoid it. It might be a good idea to to get your solicitor to ask the management company how they would deal with a complaint.

My experience of flats has persuaded me never to buy another. A small house is always preferable and often costs less.

westv

Surely noise issues are just as likely to affect houses too?

Mum_of_3_3

westv wrote: »

Surely noise issues are just as likely to affect houses too?

I agree with you westv, we live in a big converted Victorian house and our neighbours are so quiet, it's like we're the only ones here. In fact the noisiest neighbours here are the people who live in the house next door!

Also, just down our road is a terrace of Victorian houses where a friend of mine lives. She has a manic depressive living next to her and when the neighbour is going through her one of her manic phases my friend has to put up with the woman playing Barbara Streisand, Celine Dion etc full blast all night long. :eek:

OP - how can you find out if a flat has noisy neighbours? I would go for a viewing at a time when you think most neighbours will be there, so a weekday evening would be a start. See if you can meet any of the neighbours, if they seem like amiable, friendly people then that's another good sign as even if you do have problems it's easier to discuss it with a 'normal' person than it is with someone who's naturally angry, aggressive.
In my experience the owner occupiers are more 'noise-sensitive' and therefore more aware of the noise they are making.

Finally, don't forget if you live in any sort of attached property you really are at the mercy of your neighbours and your neighbours can change at any point

At the end of the day, the only way you can avoid any noise imho is to live in a detached house in the middle of nowhere!

M_o_3

the_flying_pig

Noise between walls is neither here nor there and as someone else has pointed out affects terraced houses and even semis just as much.

99% of the time the only problem you'd be likely to have would be from the flat directly above you [if a noise is loud enough to have an impact on you from above or to the side then chances are it will be affecting plenty of others as well & you'd be in a strong position to make complaints about them without the perpetrators necessarily knowing who'd squealed]. The two classics are booming music and the noise of, well, shagging. The latter is more disturbing while it's ongoing but as a rule will be an infrequent thing. The former can be a nightmare. The trouble is that neither really matters all that much unless you're trying to sleep and when did you ever view a flat at a time when you'd usually be sleeping?

All I can really suggest is that, given that we're currently in something approaching a buyer's market, don't buy a flat with anyone you think might be likely to make the above kinds of noises living above you unless it's really keenly priced [so 60 year old plus singles preferred?]. But you can never tell to be honest. I work with a 45 year old 'batchelor' bloke [who you might expect to be quiet?] who often tells me about the running battles he has with neighbours about his music and I always say to myself 'I don't blame the poor !!!!!!!s' whilst pretending to sympathise with him.

Nick_Stone

westv wrote: »

Surely noise issues are just as likely to affect houses too?

I take your point, westy. But even a terraced house has only two properties sharing its walls, one on either side. If those walls are cavity walls, then noise should be minimised - although of course there are limits as someone else mentioned. Another factor is whether the adjoining properties are owner-occupied or tenanted. In blocks of flats, many will be tenanted, and for all sorts of reasons, tenants are not always the best neighbours. I'm a tenant myself at the moment, looking for somewhere to buy, so it's not a case of my tarring all tenants with the same brush, but it is something to consider when buying a flat.

Nick_Stone

Another factor to look at if buying a flat is the floor level it occupies. Ground floor flats in blocks have particular problems because all the other flat-dwellers have to pass near your door in order to get upstairs. On a Saturday night, not only will you have the sound of the front door banging when people return home, but smokers in non-smoking flats may be up and down the stairs all night so they can smoke outside. Look, too, at the parking arrangements. Some modern blocks have car parking spaces located in front of the ground-floor flats so anyone returning very late or leaving very early will disturb you, and when it's dark, you may have car headlights flooding your bedroom.

mustrum_ridcully

the_flying_pig wrote: »

Noise between walls is neither here nor there and as someone else has pointed out affects terraced houses and even semis just as much.

99% of the time the only problem you'd be likely to have would be from the flat directly above you [if a noise is loud enough to have an impact on you from above or to the side then chances are it will be affecting plenty of others as well & you'd be in a strong position to make complaints about them without the perpetrators necessarily knowing who'd squealed]. The two classics are booming music and the noise of, well, shagging. The latter is more disturbing while it's ongoing but as a rule will be an infrequent thing. The former can be a nightmare. The trouble is that neither really matters all that much unless you're trying to sleep and when did you ever view a flat at a time when you'd usually be sleeping?

Sadly I feel that's only really true in a modern flat purpose built/conversion.

I've lived in a townhouse that was converted to flats in the 80's, and the noise from the flat above was always worse than any other neighbour. Even walking around could make enough noise to wake you up if you were asleep (carpeted floors - this was before laminate floors became the in thing).