Is it even worth re-applying for my own job??

saver6

OK, so basically my company decided that although they are pulling in a profit, it's not enough for the greedy owners, even in this climate, and so have given themselves pay rises and promotions and instead are cutting staff numbers in the front line services.

There are two of us involved - me, I've been there 11 months, and my manager, who's been there 9 years. Apparently the client-facing teams are not affected, even though both our roles are there to support ALL service teams... :mad: I know I'm not entitled to a bean of redundancy by the way. Since I started, I have been given quite a lot of extra responsibility, certainly more than was in my original job description, and I planned to ask about pay review when I reached my 12 month review next month. I was playing the long game and wanted to show willing. Now, they have proposed to merge both mine and my manager's role. This means the person left will be juggling two people's work - we are both extremely busy almost all the time, so how they think one person can do it all without losing the quality of the work is beyond our comprehension.

I don't want to be in competition with my manager. We get on well, he's very supportive etc etc. He's been there much longer than I have so it stands to reason that I am the cheaper one to get rid of. I'm not sure I even WANT the job description they're offering as it's a whole load of extra stuff that I never wanted to do, I haven't been overly happy for a while with what I DO do, and have even thought of emigrating to be closer to my family. So although I have this thing over my head that says I should just think of this as the next step forward into doing something new and just a tipping point to emigrating, I still feel like I've had a whallop to the chest. This is my 3rd redundancy but all have been so different, and this one is waaay out of my comfort zone. I need to know whether I qualify as "redundant" if I simply don't apply for this job? I haven't the energy for it all again, I don't want to "win" the job and know that I put my manager out of one, and I'd be sitting here with a company I resent and would probably look for something else anyway. If they offered me £5k I'd simply walk away as it would be enough to send me home, but I don't qualify for anything, although I've been cheeky enough to ask the question anyway (no reply yet)...

And do you know what's really typical? I just cancelled my redundancy insurance 2 weeks ago as I wasn't happy with them as they kept creeping the cost up, but hadn't got round to sorting out a new policy yet. The company had been spouting how well it's been doing so I didn't expect to have to think about the "gap".
Moi, bitter much?! I know I sound bitter and twisted, but it's sod's effing law, and my effing luck with the 18 months me and hubby have had (3 redundancies between us, a threatened lawsuit by someone we thought was a friend and £4k fraud committed against us that the police had no interest in pursuing).

Thanks even just for listening... I can't bear the thought of telling friends and family yet. I can't bear that "look" anymore or of worrying them until I have a better grip on it all.

DUTR

It's a difficult job market out there, however a job at any cost is not worth it, although you say you will be the cheaper one to lose, actually, if they can get the same for less, then you maybe the more attractive proposition.
Personally I would not apply for my own current post, however only you can decide.

saver6

Just found out the salary for this new job is only about £5k more than I'm getting now, although that was as a result of an informal discussion. Doesn't seem a lot of extra remuneration for twice as much work.... may sound ungrateful perhaps, but there's them beans. I work ridiculously hard as it is - along with a voluntary job I do as well. My health will suffer if I take on more. £5k doesn't seem worth that.

getmore4less

If you are up against the boss and you get on have a quiet chat, start with the !!!!!! conversation.

What does the boss want from the situation?

If you both want out the company may have to back down in some way.

OK you get £5k more but what is the boss getting?

Between you you need to make it happen the way you both get the best deal for each of you.

Just be very carefull about how much you give away of your desired outcome throughaout any talk unless it helps get what you want.

depends how you want to play the game

You could also start a kind of silent work to rule, be selective about which bits of your job get done, especialy if you get a lot of demands from those that have save jobs at the moment, get them doing some of the tasks they fob of on you so they know what is coming.

unluckymike

I have had this in a previous job.

I went above my manager to their manager and explained that I had been doing the job for 7 years and was very good at what I was doing. Annual appraisals proved this.

However, this was met negatively. I told them bluntly that either I'm good enough to be kept on or not. There were 20 people in the team and wanted to streamline to 6. I didn't reapply for my post as my experience should have safeguarded it due to being the most experienced member of the team. I subsequently asked for my redundancy package and what I wanted. Fortunately I got what I wanted which was more than the company wanted to offer but it was increased by senior management at Aviva.

Now the work is centrally based in India and the 6 people have been relocated to other departments on lower salaries. Glad I left when I did.

Good Luck!

saver6

Well, I've had the weekend to think things over. Had lots of distractions as well which has been good, and a long chat with my dad who has this weird knack of putting many things into perspective and showing me paths I hadn't thought of. So I'm feeling a lot more confident.

I like getmore4less' advice about chatting with manager. I think it is hitting him much harder. He's never gone through redundancy before. And I will certainly start putting more work the way of those definitely staying. Nice idea! For the record, all those "safe" people can't see the logic either, they're all completely incensed that management are doing this, as they can see how much extra work they will have to do - and quite a few already work 12 hour days to fit things in! And a few have already been passing me contact details of people that could help me if I end up not staying here, so you know, people do value me and that speaks volumes.

So as a result of all this, I am officially "keeping my options open". I will follow the consultation process, play the game. You see, I get this really strong feeling that they want to keep ME on as my manager would have to take a massive pay drop in this new role, and I can't see him wanting to do that, not when he'll get a nice payout as well. And a lot of the new responsibilties include things that I have set up and currently "own". But I'm not desperate to get this job. So I'm playing this game, but also following other paths. I think I'll be ok. As you can tell, a few night's sleep can make the world of difference!

Thanks all, I'll let you know how things go...

A_nice_fellow

Greedy Owners!?!?

How DARE you. They've been proivding you with a job for god knows how long. If you think they're being too greedy, then you go and create your own bloody business that's less greedy.

Then you may understand how irritating that statement is

saver6

A_nice_fellow wrote: »

Greedy Owners!?!?

How DARE you. They've been proivding you with a job for god knows how long. If you think they're being too greedy, then you go and create your own bloody business that's less greedy.

Then you may understand how irritating that statement is

Not exactly living up to your forum name, eh?

In the heat of the moment when you're first told you're being made redundant as they don't need two of you, when current workloads dictate that's most definitely not the case, when the company has been making a profit, that I am at risk because I don't deal with the clients directly despite supporting ALL teams to give those clients what they want, hearing of the promotions that management have been getting and the profit they're pulling in, the new company cars they've been getting, while I have to work out how I'll pay my mortgage and bills if I am made redundant, then yea, "greedy owners" is a statement I feel entitled to make at that particular moment.

But thanks for the advice and support anyway :rotfl:

A_nice_fellow

Ok, in retrospect I should probably have buttoned my lip; I appreciate this isn't a great time for you and this isn't the time/place to start discussing the theory of employee-employer relations

Best of luck for the future

saver6

Thank you for the apology. I do understand why companies make people redundant, and when it is necessary etc. In my last employer, I had seen it coming for a while. The fact we had no work was a big heads-up to start looking.

But this time - well, they've been showing off how well the company is doing and acting really pleased with everyone, then this comes out of the blue when we are this busy, feels really unwarranted. I've seen friends have to go through the same. And yet I remember reading about one employer on these very boards who did whatever it took to cut costs elsewhere but keep his very valued staff, redundancy would have been a last resort, not a first in cutting costs, and you can see there is a world of difference between employer types. If I was an employer myself, I know which one I'd rather be.

saver6

Not really updating as there's not a lot to update. the "final decision" meeting will be sometime next week and I think me and my manager are both going to go for this new job. Neither of us are really very motivated to go for it or do the job itself, but we kind of have to to qualify as being made redundant. Obviously, I'm not entitled to anything but manager is, so he certainly has to. However, I think this new job is going to pay a fair amount lower than he is already on - would this be a case for constructive dismissal? I don't know a lot about CD at all apart from the directgov guidelines, but if he's being forced into going for a lower-paid job, surely that counts as being forced out completely, whether he gets the job or not? I really like the guy so if I can help him by making sure he understands that there might be a case for him, then I'd like to help.

I've got 3 options that I'm juggling - an action plan for every eventuality, so I'm feeling fairly confident about my options, whatever happens next week. I hope they realise they need us both though, we've been fighting our corner!