MSE News: Victims told to pay twice for electricity doorstep scam

davidgmmafan

"Energy giants are forcing up to 85,000 households hit by a doorstep energy scam to pay twice for their electricity."

Erm its the fraudsters that are forcing this surely? Poorly worded that I feel.

I totally agree with post 4. If something sounds to good to be true it probably is. There should perhaps be something in place to assist in taking the hit on people who are vulnerable, but this would have to be done carefully as everyone who is affected could claim they are vulnerable. If someone lacked the mental capacity of the average adult I wouldn't want to see them punished for this, but if its just greed its a lesson learned.

With the money example I believe if you hand over a forged note at a bank branch they HAVE TO keep it. You can leave you name and address but I doubt dodgy characters would want to do that.

I got an offer in the post to play the Spanish Lottery, German lottery and the Irish Lottery. It sounded great but there was not way to establish it was genuine so I filed it with all the other junk mail. I don't believe you CAN play the Irish Lottery directly in the UK. You can bet on the outcome in the bookies but that is not the same thing.

johnwallace

isn't this a big security lapse by the energy companies in allowing these keys to be cloned?

How are the energy companies allowing the keys to be cloned?

Crook phones up Scottish power and asks if he can clone the key and Scottish Power say OK.

Does the Royal Mint allow crooks to make forged banknotes?

glider3560

Should these people really be labelled as "victims"? Wouldn't it be better to say they were trying to pull a fast one and avoid paying for their gas/electricity?

Premier_2

...These organised gangs, which often appear legitimate, sometimes offer seemingly-attractive discounts such as £50 of credit for the price of £25....

Victims?

These where chancers who hoped to get something on the cheap, but only ended up getting stung themselves.

Never has the old adage, "You buy cheap, you buy twice" been more appropriate
(although it was not originally intended for such chancers taking the mickey)

No sympathy from me to any chancers who got stung on this one, I'm afraid.

davidgmmafan

Agreed, although there should be something done with regards to people with for example mental health issues, but this would have to be done on a case by cases I feel.

FATBALLZ

johnwallace wrote: »

How are the energy companies allowing the keys to be cloned?

Crook phones up Scottish power and asks if he can clone the key and Scottish Power say OK.

Does the Royal Mint allow crooks to make forged banknotes?

Ok maybe that was the wrong wording, it's probably my ignorance of how prepay meters work, but shouldn't a key after being used once, be rejected as a method of payment? Aren't the meters all on a central network, so the company can just see it's already been used, and stop anybody else trying to use the same key?

chris_m

Lovely tone to the headline of the story, eh?
Ooh, the Big Bad Utility Companies are making people pay twice, when the fault is really the criminal gangs who are selling cloned keys and/or the people who don't stop to think that, as usual, if it's too good to be true then it probably is.

Seems to be the usual sensationalist style that is all too often employed nowadays rather than a proper factual article.

I_luv_cats

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2675741&highlight=

I raised this almost 3 weeks ago. How comes it is just coming out NOW!!

I know the energy companies collect your meter reading by their keys being topped by @ paypoint/zone and/or regular home visits SO they would know you are under paying!!! They only write it off if you meter is under-charging SO it's pointless getting it on the cheap!!!

Premier_2

Archna Luthra, MoneySavingExpert.com consumer products analyst, says: "When your bank card is cloned, the bank usually takes the hit so you are not out of pocket.
"If energy firms cannot stop criminals cloning top-up keys, they should not force consumers to pay twice for their electricity.

I don't think that is quite the right analogy, Archna.

With bank cards, the bank only protects those that are entirely innocent.

i.e. If an innocent customer has their own card cloned by a crook, (without their knowledge) and someone else uses that cloned card to obtain goods or services resulting in transactions on the innocent, original card holders account that are not correctly authorised by the genuine card holder, then the bank will rightly protect the interests of that innocent customer.

Where a chancer buys some dodgy stolen/cloned card off a crook in the hope of using it to dishonestly obtain good or services on the cheap, the bank will not protect that chancer.
In fact, if that chancer is caught, they could well expect to be involved with Plod and have either the dishonestly obtained goods ceased or otherwise they would be liable to the supplier (and/or the card company) for the cost of the goods or services dishonestly obtained.

I can't see any responsible card company saying to such chancer:

"Aw, so sorry we didn't make our systems so secure that it was totally impossible for a determined crook to clone someone else's card. We know you paid £500 for that cloned card and went on a quick spending spree and maxed the card out to it's £1000 limit. Never mind, keep the goods you got."

Perhaps the analogy should be that now there is evidence of these chancers trying to obtain energy dishonestly by using cloned cards they have purchased, these chancers too should expect a visit from Plod, just like someone caught using a cloned bank card probably would.

davidgmmafan

I agree the bank card analogy isn't a particulrly good one. If your card is for example used by a friend and family member and you have told them your pin the bank could well refuse to re-imburse you (reasonably IMO). They do say don't tell ANYONE your pin.

Same goes for stolen card if you've been obviously negligent like having the pin with the card. I know it sounds nuts but people DO do it. I lost count of the number of people who, when I was asking them security question (eg if they had lost thier card and wanted to make a withdrawal) mis-understood and started to tell me thier pin. You needed lightening reactions to say no don't tell me, or as a last resot LALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING!