More than one way of getting points for ESA??

andyandflo

Hi all,
first of all I won't go into the circumstances to deep and I'll try to keep to the facts.

Claimed ESA(C) in Oct 09. Had medical in Jan 10, received letter from DM telling me I had failed in Feb 10. ATOS gave me 9 points for going unconscious at least once every 3/4 weeks. Appealed Feb 10, no change of decision and case sent to Tribunal Feb 10.

Between Feb 10 and June 10 had got all my evidence together - letters of support from 3 Consultants, GP and Occ. Health + copies of all of the letters from all concerned detailing the problems, hospital admissions, etc etc etc. covering the entire period of my illnesses (1994 - to date).

Rang DWP in Aug 10 and they stated that it should go to Tribunal as they are not interested in the case anymore.
Rang Tribunal and said that hearing will not be this year more likely Feb/Mar 11.

By now had had enough, and with another possible 6 months to wait just gave up. Sent letter to Tribunal - copy to DWP telling them the strain is too much and to cancel the appeal giving the grounds that the claim, had considerable ommisions of facts not disclosed by me (failed to disclose other illnesses that had a bearing also on my health) and was just not safe to proceed with. I was not as polite as that - being angry over the system and the delay in getting a date, I said that the claim was a 'load of bo****ks'.

I claimed JSA instead having to tell white lies over my ability to work and hiding the fact that my GP had only the week before given me another sick note for 6 months. I did cover myself because the two departments would no doubt talk to each other that I do have some periods of sickness, these were short lived and that in the main I was fairly fit and able to ride my bicycle for upwards of 3 miles at a time on a daily basis (lucky if I can do 200yds twice a year and then on a very good day!!). This was the only way to get on that benefit and get any money. No job offers have been forthcoming although I have applied for many. I know I can't work, my GP & Consultants would hit the roof if I even suggested that I was thinking about it (any strain on the stomach area as well as causing severe pain, could rupture veins in my stomach wall which is life threatening, as well as a mental health condition that has seen me recently in a secure pyschiatric unit). But needs must. I do worry if an offer comes up and I have to turn it down, but I will cross that bridge when I get to it.
I receive DLA at the lower rate for mobility for life because of this mental illness, although in the past when I first had it in 1994, I was on Higher rate both for care and mobility for life. Over the years I kept on asking for it to be reduced as I hated the 'label' attached to it. It gradually went down to the current level in 2004.

That brings me up to date. Now I find that the DM does have the power to uprate my points if the report findings do not match the points awarded.

In my case, It was a very bad day and I was crippled with chest pains. I had already taken a considerable amount of Morphine to be able to get to the assessment. Anyhow, the assessor told me to take off my overcoat. I explained that he would have to help me due to the pain I was in. He refused and that was it. The report came back that he put down that he recognised that I was in pain & in fact I had to ask him for water to take some more morphine which I always carry, and that because of that he could not carry out the physical assessment. He gave me 0 points for that.

How should I go about asking why the DM did not see the discrepancy in the written report and the points awarded?

Honestly, I can't carry on with this JSA claim, I'm frightened to death that I will get sanctioned somewhere along the line and lose money.

Do they keep a record of my original ESA claim and if I was to make a new one, would my comments about it lacking credibility go against me? Would they treat a new claim with suspicion?

How do I go about claiming ESA again - I still have a valid sick note dated Aug 10 for 6 months which was sent to the DWP. My GP thinks I am still claiming ESA!!

To finish off I have two other serious illnesses which I have never disclosed to the DWP as I believed you could only talk (on the ESA50) about the only one shown on the sick note. I have considerable evidence in support of all three illnesses.

I can't very well go back to my GP for a new sicknote when there is one in force until the end of Feb 11.

I do claim Pension Credit but that is another story linked into the inability to get help towards the mortgage and the having to walk away from our home because we couldn't afford the mortgage payments any longer.
When I was claiming ESA, I was in the middle of starting up some self employed work under the Permitted Rules system for which I had received confirmation from the DWP after submitting the form PW1. This is still ongoing now that I am claiming JSA.
Do the same rules apply for JSA as they do for ESA regarding Permitted Work?

stazi

So, just make a new claim to ESA from 6 months after failing the WCA - from XX Aug 10. Ring JCP on 0800 055 6688. As your new claim would be after 6 months since you failed the WCA, it should be accepted. You will be referred for the WCA again as part of the new claim. This time,tell JCP and ATOS all your incapacities- not just the ones on the sick/fit note.

andyandflo

stazi wrote: »

So, just make a new claim to ESA from 6 months after failing the WCA - from XX Aug 10. Ring JCP on 0800 055 6688. As your new claim would be after 6 months since you failed the WCA, it should be accepted. You will be referred for the WCA again as part of the new claim. This time,tell JCP and ATOS all your incapacities- not just the ones on the sick/fit note.

Oh as simple as that. That's great thanks.

Can I rely on my existing sicknote?

Would they treat the new claim as suspicious, hold over payment until fully investigated, all the while having no money since ceasing the JSA claim?

Is there a problem over the Permitted Work which JSA don't know about as I assumed that the same would apply to both benefits?

What should I do with all of this evidence, you can't send it in with the ESA50?

Would they look at the position and see that the evidence does refer to an earlier claim that I should have been allowed to have?

Or would the 6 month rule start from when I cancelled the appeal in August?

How should I get the DM see that they should have at least considered an increase in points from the last medical based on what was written versus what points were given?

My real fear is being with money. I had that when it went from ESA to JSA - is it fairly fast if they don't pick up on my earlier claim and comments about it being dodgy?

Thanks for the help

cit_k

andyandflo wrote: »

I explained that he would have to help me due to the pain I was in. He refused and that was it. The report came back that he put down that he recognised that I was in pain & in fact I had to ask him for water to take some more morphine which I always carry, and that because of that he could not carry out the physical assessment. He gave me 0 points for that.

Give the claimant privacy to undress and dress. Do not assist the claimant in removing clothing unless you have clarified with them that your assistance is required

Direct from ESA Handbook 4 Final MED-ESAHB~001 page 44.

So unless there is a more upto date handbook that contradicts this, the doctor, it appears, should NOT have refused to help you remove clothing, after you had clarified with them that their assistance was required.

stazi

andyandflo

Can I rely on my existing sicknote? Yes

Would they treat the new claim as suspicious, hold over payment until fully investigated, all the while having no money since ceasing the JSA claim? Not suspicious

Is there a problem over the Permitted Work which JSA don't know about as I assumed that the same would apply to both benefits? PW only whilst on IB/ESA- never has been for JSA

What should I do with all of this evidence, you can't send it in with the ESA50? Yes with ESA50

Would they look at the position and see that the evidence does refer to an earlier claim that I should have been allowed to have? Not relevant now

Or would the 6 month rule start from when I cancelled the appeal in August? Failing WCA in Feb

How should I get the DM see that they should have at least considered an increase in points from the last medical based on what was written versus what points were given? Not relevant now

My real fear is being with money. I had that when it went from ESA to JSA - is it fairly fast if they don't pick up on my earlier claim and comments about it being dodgy? Any overlap from date of new ESA claim will be sorted.

andyandflo

cit_k wrote: »

Direct from ESA Handbook 4 Final MED-ESAHB~001 page 44.

So unless there is a more upto date handbook that contradicts this, the doctor, it appears, should NOT have refused to help you remove clothing, after you had clarified with them that their assistance was required.

Thanks for that. It seems that it is irrelevant now having closed down the appeal for the original ESA claim (Oct 09 - Aug10).

But it is most unfair that I was penalised for not being able to conduct the physical examination. I specifcally asked for the help as the coat was quite large and heavy. My wife had to get me into it before we left home.

Mind you there is no evidence that I actually asked for the help, as I was in the medical room on my own - my wife being told by the receptionist that it would not be necessary for her to come in with me.

You live and learn.

If it is just this one thing you have mentioned to me that gets me 'fired' up for another go at the medical it is worth it.

Thanks

andyandflo

stazi wrote: »

What should I do with all of this evidence, you can't send it in with the ESA50? Yes with ESA50

QUOTE]

Are you sure?

I still have the original ESA50 form and covering letter dated November 09 which I never returned to Medical Services in Croydon as I ceased the ESA claim in December 09 to claim JSA for a few weeks after being told by Canterbury BDC over the telephone that JSA was better suited for me.
A couple of weeks later I found out that I should not have done that and reclaimed ESA, closing down the JSA claim. I had the medical whilst I was claiming JSA!

The second ESA50 I received in January 10 (after reclaiming and after the medical had been carried out). It was returned more or less at the same time as the letter came from DWP saying that I had failed

The enclosure letter states the following:

"Please only return the enclosed form ESA50..." & "Please only return the enclosed for ESA50....medical certificates or any other documents....Do not enclose them with the form ESA50"

I checked this later (after getting my evidence together) and the DWP said that any evidence should be sent in with any appeal, not beforehand or with the submission to the Tribunal.

Who is correct?

Indie_Kid

andyandflo wrote: »

I do claim Pension Credit but that is another story linked into the inability to get help towards the mortgage and the having to walk away from our home because we couldn't afford the mortgage payments any longer.

Aren't you better off just claiming PC, instead of putting yourself through more stress by claiming ESA?

Oldernotwiser

sh1305 wrote: »

Aren't you better off just claiming PC, instead of putting yourself through more stress by claiming ESA?

You missed his earlier posts and the fiddle he's planning with doing permitted work whilst claiming ESA.

lurkerlurk

I disagree that the existing sicknote can be used - it certainly isnt accepted in the BDC I work in.

Different claim means new medical evidence as there has been a change of circumstance in the period between claims.

healy

andyandflo wrote: »

Hi all,
first of all I won't go into the circumstances to deep and I'll try to keep to the facts.

Claimed ESA(C) in Oct 09. Had medical in Jan 10, received letter from DM telling me I had failed in Feb 10. ATOS gave me 9 points for going unconscious at least once every 3/4 weeks. Appealed Feb 10, no change of decision and case sent to Tribunal Feb 10.

Between Feb 10 and June 10 had got all my evidence together - letters of support from 3 Consultants, GP and Occ. Health + copies of all of the letters from all concerned detailing the problems, hospital admissions, etc etc etc. covering the entire period of my illnesses (1994 - to date).

Rang DWP in Aug 10 and they stated that it should go to Tribunal as they are not interested in the case anymore.
Rang Tribunal and said that hearing will not be this year more likely Feb/Mar 11.

By now had had enough, and with another possible 6 months to wait just gave up. Sent letter to Tribunal - copy to DWP telling them the strain is too much and to cancel the appeal giving the grounds that the claim, had considerable ommisions of facts not disclosed by me (failed to disclose other illnesses that had a bearing also on my health) and was just not safe to proceed with. I was not as polite as that - being angry over the system and the delay in getting a date, I said that the claim was a 'load of bo****ks'.

I claimed JSA instead having to tell white lies over my ability to work and hiding the fact that my GP had only the week before given me another sick note for 6 months. I did cover myself because the two departments would no doubt talk to each other that I do have some periods of sickness, these were short lived and that in the main I was fairly fit and able to ride my bicycle for upwards of 3 miles at a time on a daily basis (lucky if I can do 200yds twice a year and then on a very good day!!). This was the only way to get on that benefit and get any money. No job offers have been forthcoming although I have applied for many. I know I can't work, my GP & Consultants would hit the roof if I even suggested that I was thinking about it (any strain on the stomach area as well as causing severe pain, could rupture veins in my stomach wall which is life threatening, as well as a mental health condition that has seen me recently in a secure pyschiatric unit). But needs must. I do worry if an offer comes up and I have to turn it down, but I will cross that bridge when I get to it.
I receive DLA at the lower rate for mobility for life because of this mental illness, although in the past when I first had it in 1994, I was on Higher rate both for care and mobility for life. Over the years I kept on asking for it to be reduced as I hated the 'label' attached to it. It gradually went down to the current level in 2004.

That brings me up to date. Now I find that the DM does have the power to uprate my points if the report findings do not match the points awarded.

In my case, It was a very bad day and I was crippled with chest pains. I had already taken a considerable amount of Morphine to be able to get to the assessment. Anyhow, the assessor told me to take off my overcoat. I explained that he would have to help me due to the pain I was in. He refused and that was it. The report came back that he put down that he recognised that I was in pain & in fact I had to ask him for water to take some more morphine which I always carry, and that because of that he could not carry out the physical assessment. He gave me 0 points for that.

How should I go about asking why the DM did not see the discrepancy in the written report and the points awarded?

Honestly, I can't carry on with this JSA claim, I'm frightened to death that I will get sanctioned somewhere along the line and lose money.

Do they keep a record of my original ESA claim and if I was to make a new one, would my comments about it lacking credibility go against me? Would they treat a new claim with suspicion?

How do I go about claiming ESA again - I still have a valid sick note dated Aug 10 for 6 months which was sent to the DWP. My GP thinks I am still claiming ESA!!

To finish off I have two other serious illnesses which I have never disclosed to the DWP as I believed you could only talk (on the ESA50) about the only one shown on the sick note. I have considerable evidence in support of all three illnesses.

I can't very well go back to my GP for a new sicknote when there is one in force until the end of Feb 11.

I do claim Pension Credit but that is another story linked into the inability to get help towards the mortgage and the having to walk away from our home because we couldn't afford the mortgage payments any longer.
When I was claiming ESA, I was in the middle of starting up some self employed work under the Permitted Rules system for which I had received confirmation from the DWP after submitting the form PW1. This is still ongoing now that I am claiming JSA.
Do the same rules apply for JSA as they do for ESA regarding Permitted Work?

QUOTE.

I did cover myself because the two departments would no doubt talk to each other that I do have some periods of sickness, these were short lived and that in the main I was fairly fit and able to ride my bicycle for upwards of 3 miles at a time on a daily basis (lucky if I can do 200yds twice a year and then on a very good day!!).

END QUOTE.

You have said before that you ride 3 miles a day on your bike and now you are saying 200 yards.

Which is it?