Bus fare rip-off

Haarlem

Altarf wrote: »

The bus company also gets paid for the money it has lost when people who would have caught the bus and paid, but cannot do so now because the bus is full of people who have used a free bus pass.

Please can you sustantiate this statement

Apples2

chuckley wrote: »

travelling by bus is rapidly becoming an expensive method of transport.

The Term Rapid and Bus around here are two very diffrent words.

[Deleted User]

Arriva here charge £6 for a day ticket and that even excludes some of the expensive long journeys across the county.

Also how do you know every bus pass is a free bus pass? I know people who have a bus pass via their employer and it's paid for directly from their salary.

dzug1

Altarf wrote: »

What the bus company does get paid is what it has lost by not charging fares to those people who would have caught the bus, if the free bus pass scheme did not exist. i.e. it only gets paid for those people who would have paid to catch the bus anyway.

The bus company also gets paid for the money it has lost when people who would have caught the bus and paid, but cannot do so now because the bus is full of people who have used a free bus pass.
.

So how on earth are those calculations made? How do they know who would have paid anyway?

And who keeps records of passengers being turned away because the bus is full??

In any case, whichever way you calculate it it's still a state subsidy.

aurongrande_2

gardner1 wrote: »

puplic transporrt ???? ahh yes i remember that years ago when i used it last it was ful of noisy chavs and people with body odor problems
is it still the same

depends on what route you use. I've known a route from my town that goes to Doncaster. It passes through a town called Harworth. I was a trainee bus driver and several times I had to go on that route to learn it. I wasn't driving, more like a passenger learning the route, although in partial Stagecoach uniform.

Whenever we went through that town, 2 things happened.

1st, the route basically goes from my town to Doncaster via Harworth, then back to doing a loop inside Harworth, back to Doncaster, and then finally back to home-town via Harworth.

On that route, we passed by a bus shelter which had 4 panes of glass remaining. Each time we passed the shelter, a pane vanished.

2nd, going through Harworth also results in a group of about 10 lads getting on without paying (no bus passes) and proceeding to just do a lap round Harworth. They use this lap to smoke drugs on the bus.

KillerWatt

aurongrande wrote: »

All this because Stagecoach Managers keep giving themselves bonuses and raises whilst the drivers get nothing.

I think you'll find that 13 years of mismanagement is the reason for the disproportionate price hikes we see in day to day life.

There are plenty of cheaper (and more convenient) options than a bus that can't even manage 10mpg (how "green" is that?), but it all depends on how much travelling you do as to whether those options are viable.

jd82

10mpg is very green. If you have 10 passangers on a bus its still more efficient than one in a car. In reality most buses have at least 30 passangers on and in Manxchester drivers tell me its been known to havw 130 on one!

I am a driver but I do use public transport but I always tend to avoid buses like the plague. Compared to trains and trams they are expensive and slow.

Altarf

Altarf wrote: »

What the bus company does get paid is what it has lost by not charging fares to those people who would have caught the bus, if the free bus pass scheme did not exist. i.e. it only gets paid for those people who would have paid to catch the bus anyway.

The bus company also gets paid for the money it has lost when people who would have caught the bus and paid, but cannot do so now because the bus is full of people who have used a free bus pass.

Haarlem wrote: »

Please can you sustantiate this statement

dzug1 wrote: »

So how on earth are those calculations made? How do they know who would have paid anyway?

And who keeps records of passengers being turned away because the bus is full??

In any case, whichever way you calculate it it's still a state subsidy.

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1084414616&type=RESOURCES

Claiming reimbursement for concessionary bus travel from local authorities

Bus operators are reimbursed by their local Travel Concession Authority (TCA) for the cost of providing concessionary travel. The amount of reimbursement for each operator is worked out using a formula. Simply paying the unpaid fare in full could amount to a hidden subsidy to the operator, which is not allowed by European legislation.
The objective behind the reimbursement calculation is that bus operators should be neither better nor worse off as a result of receiving it. They should be in the position they would have been in had there been no concession. The TCA will work out the payment as an element for the 'revenue foregone' and an element for the 'additional cost' of carrying concessionary travellers.
'Revenue foregone' is the amount of money:

• passengers would have paid if there hadn't been a concession and who would have travelled anyway
• lost from passengers who could not get on the bus because of concessionary travellers

'Additional costs' are the costs of:

• the wear and tear in carrying concessionary passengers
• the provision of extra buses or increased frequency in services where there is demand from a rising number of concessionary travellers
• providing publicity and information for the day-to-day operation of the concession

Each TCA calculates the reimbursement by collecting information, and through discussion with the individual operator. Some of the information will be based on estimates, and some on actual data collected from the operator. Further information may be collected through travel surveys. The key variables are:

• the total number of concessionary journeys made
• the average of the fares that would have been paid if there had been no concession
• the elasticity of demand - how many additional people took concessionary journeys who would not otherwise have travelled
• the cost of carrying additional passengers because of demand brought about by the concession

And also for more details of the calculations - http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/regional/buses/concessionary/informationlocalauthorities/reimbursementappeals/reimbursing?page=5#a1012

Do you believe me now?

As you can see it avoids being a state subsidy because the bus operator gets no more (or less) money than when they were running a normal commercial service and charging everyone. It is simply a benefit to those entitled to the concessionary passes, and as you are only paying for a fraction of those who actually use the pass (let alone those that you issue them to) quite cost effective.

john-306

Haarlem wrote: »

First it is more than older people who get bus passes. It includes unemploed young people and many on other benefits. I travel frequently by bus (yes using my bus pass) and as many under 60's as over 60's flash their bus pass.

.

My 18 year old daughter "flashes" her bus pass but it's not a free one, it's one she has to pay £77 for, for each term at college, so don't assume all flashes of a bus pass are actually "free"

chuckley

opinions4u wrote: »

The problem is that somebody decided it was a good idea to let older people have free travel whenever they wanted it.

Guess how that's paid for!

dont 4get the kids and the free bus travel they have.