Bought a car & now find out its a Cat D write-off!

eschaton

iconic944ss wrote: »

I really wasnt going to bother posting a reply due to some of the smart, sanctimonious, keyboard warrior type replies on here but just in case its of use to some other poor soul who gets duped in the same way, then I will reply.

I apologise for being a trusting person who was taken in by a con-man!

We now have a series of evidence to show that the seller is a trader (probably unregistered) who is selling multiple vehicles, turns out he has 3 for sale on Ebay at the moment.

The car I bought was originally advertised on Ebay, I did bid, but lost as the car sold at a higher valve - just over £5000

About a week later the seller phoned me to say the winner did not pay and he was calling those who had contacted him to offer the car. We came to an agreement and I bought the car for £5000.

If only I'd looked at Ebay once more I'd of seen that the buyer in actual fact left a negative stating that "THE CAR WAS A CAT-D WRITE OFF THAT THE SELLER DID NOT DISCLOSE".

It was NOT shown as Cat-D on the Ebay auction and neither the winner or myself were told it was a Cat-D.

Trading standards have been informed and said it might well go to a small claims court and to try and ask for my money back if thats what I want, which I do.

Turning to the garage I took the car to.
I used a local main dealer for the car, not a back street shop - they only charged a nominal £60 for the diagnostic check. The service manager took me through most of the visible faults. To summarise, in his opinion - Major front and minor rear impact.
However, the diag shows many faults in the wiring system, multiple low voltages & sensors bypassed.
My worry here is not only that the airbags might not deploy but how would the car withstand any other major impact in the event of an accident?

I visited the very nice man who surprising enough turned into a thug when I asked for a full refund.

Turns out he gave me a false name, but I've been able to find out his real name and the multiple addresses he is registered at.

I cant help but think this is the tip of a local iceberg of a ring who are selling cars on.

Sadly, the police do not appear to be interested as in their opinion nothing criminal has happened, yet, so I'll be back onto trading standards to update them as soon as poss.

I know I'm now in for a long haul & yes, I know that ALL of this could have been prevented by a simple HPI check (now) even via Ebay. But isnt it a sad indication of modern times when all the onus make checks appears to lay with a buyer?

CAN ANY MORE REPLIES PLEASE BE KEPT TO HELPFUL OR CONSTRUCTIVE ONES RATHER THAN WHAT I SHOULD OF DONE.

THANK YOU.

You sound like the perfect buyer - just waiting to be ripped off.

Bet they love you at Kwik Fit

minnie123

eschaton wrote: »

You sound like the perfect buyer - just waiting to be ripped off.

Bet they love you at Kwik Fit

Is there really any need for that it's like you are making a joke about someone being ripped off - that is not very nice - I thought this site was to help people.

OP do you have his real name now? was a fake name on the V5 surely that is an offence you can report to dvla/vosa?? Do you have his home address a phonecall to HMRC could inform them of a trader more than likely not registered as self employed or paying tax- money laundering?? I'm no expert just a few thoughts x

paddy1001_2

op,
without meaning to enquire too much into your own personal dealings, did you pay by cash, cheque draft or however? if by cash is traders own name or address on v5? if so you could ask hmrc if any money exchanged was declared? if cheque then hmrc and local authority may be interested as premises he is using could be described as business rather than personal so qualifying for higher rates and taxable benefits, vat office may also be interested.
Using his ebay id how many vehicles sold in last 12 months may be of use to you. AFAIK you are only allowed to sell a maximum of 6 private vehicles per 12 months as a private trader, any more and you are totally open to all traders laws
paddy1001

colino

Paddy, there isn't a numerical limit that makes you a trader. If you sell one car for profit, you are a trader.

bigjl

Actually there is a limit, and I think paddy is correct, in that the accepted limit is around 6 cars a year.

Or at least that is what we used to keep in mind when selling cars on as a sideline, not sure who set the limit, it may be on a case by case basis, but I think it is either HMRC or Trading Standards. Loot used to keep an eye on all the adverts and after you hit the limit they made you pay, they used to trace you using your phone numbers. Autotrader do something similar.

Though there is no such thing as a private trader, a home trader maybe but not a private one.

Also selling one car doesn't make you a trader, otherwise nobody would sell a car privately, remember making a profit isn't the only thing that defines what you do is a business, or do you consider that any business not making a profit is therefore not a business.

As far a the OP goes, Ebay is an auction, and from what I have seen the advert just needs to be honest and not misdescribe the item, though I am sure that distance selling rules apply.

But as I have only rarely used eBay I know little about it, as far as I am aware you must check out the item before sale and then base your bid on that, if is described wrongly then you don't comlpete the sale.

If the OP checks with the previous keeper, he can then find out if the car was sold through a proper physical auction, this auction will have had a legal obligation to inform the bidder that it was recorded as a Cat D, this will prove prior knowledge, with no possibility of the eBay seller talking his way out of it.

Hopefully the OP has learned a lesson, if you can't forsee all the pitfalls in buying sight unseen or from an auction or trader pretending to be a private seller, then you have to go to a dealer and get all the legal cover that you require.

I have been involved in cars, have been a trader and ran a large garage/bodyshop, the dodgy parts of the trade are devious and cunning.

It is a pity that you did all this research after the auction was finished, though the feedback from the auction winner was not available at that time.

Actually now I have thought about it a bit more, as far as the rules and regs go, and the info' in the eBay listing goes, you are probably not protected by the distance selling rules and trading standards, as you didn't win the auction.

Did the seller contact you via eBay, such as a second chance bid, it may be treated as a private sale, as the negotiation was done outside the eBay system. You might want to look into it, but for gods sake, in future stick to dealers, it takes an experienced eye to spot an accident damaged/repaired car. Some have posted on this forum how they think they where intellectually superior to mere car traders.

They might not have degrees, but they aren't stupid, this trader has probably pulled this stunt many times before.

eschaton

minnie123 wrote: »

Is there really any need for that it's like you are making a joke about someone being ripped off - that is not very nice - I thought this site was to help people.

OP is too trusting and doesn't believe HE should be the one doing any checks when making an expensive purchase.

My original comment stands. He would help himself by living in the real world.

Strider590

iconic944ss wrote: »

I visited the very nice man who surprising enough turned into a thug when I asked for a full refund.

Turns out he gave me a false name, but I've been able to find out his real name and the multiple addresses he is registered at.

I cant help but think this is the tip of a local iceberg of a ring who are selling cars on.

Or more than likely some guy repairing cars at home to flog on.....
Often (but not always) they're work dodgers, living off of benefits and often these people don't declare the money they're making to the inland revenue.......

iconic944ss

Thank you to some of the respondents here.

Glad to say there has been a happy ending, I have managed to get ALL my money back from the seller.

I believe this is due to me having a written statement that the seller KNEW it was a cat-d he was selling before he sold it to me. It helped that it wasnt stated as Cat-D on Ebay either.

A few notes:
Consumer Direct were very good and have lots of info on their site.

There is NO legal definition of a Car trader!
If a case goes to court, its decided on a case-by-case basis with the facts that are presented.

The DVLA do NOT state if a vehicle is ANY type of insurance write off on the V5C, only if its been subject to an identity check - I couldnt believe it either.

It still feels like a hollow victory, few legal systems are in place to help a victim of what after all is a crime (just depends on the degree). Its not a legal requirement to get a HPI check done and yet it turns out the insurance company I used actually will not insure a Cat-D vehicle - so if I had a crash - I wouldn't of got a penny - or worse.

Sadly, all this episode has given me is a deep mistrust of any seller, when I'm buying anything of value - just one of the things I believe is at the core of our decaying society.

Thanks again

Sam_Fallow

Glad to read a happy ending.

It may feel like a hollow victory, but it's a victory and you should be very relieved and pleased with the outcome. You have your money back (more than I've ever spent on a car) and you have learnt a very valuable lesson (for free it seems).

Hope you have a better experience buying your next car and find a good seller.

mikey72

Good result, glad you got sorted in the end.
Buyers do have more rights then they are given credit for, good for you for sticking up for them.