garage that can't be used to store a car

Made_Without

poppysarah wrote: »

Look up the address - see whether it has anything listed for it.
If not ring the BCO on Monday to ask his advice.

You don't want to be buying a garage you can't use and will cost lots of money to make it meet regs.

Someone might suggest not ringing the BCO as it means you can't get an indemnity certificate but in this case I'd suggest a piece of paper isn't as important as a safe house.

The BCO might want to visit and tell you what you need to do to comply. If it means dropping the floor will it undermine the foundations and therefore all need to come down?

I think it's important enough to be getting it done properly if you plan on proceding - and if you're not, well it'll make the seller realise they need to get it sorted.

just checked the council planning permission site - it's not listed there; but then the vendor did say they hadn't required it. When the council building officer came round the only thing that needed to be changed was the roofing (felt) and that was done.

olly300

Chocolate*fish wrote: »

just checked the council planning permission site - it's not listed there; but then the vendor did say they hadn't required it. When the council building officer came round the only thing that needed to be changed was the roofing (felt) and that was done.

As suggested go and talk to the council building officer.

While the vendor is probably telling the truth due to the misinformation from the EA you need to find out what the exact truth is.

chris_m

lincroft1710 wrote: »

It's the skip that'll put the price up, offer the bricks as free hardcore.

Or build a barbecue and rockery :rotfl:

lindos90

Chocolate*fish...a PIQ is a property information questionnaire, or similarly named form that the vendor completes, usually along with the fixtures and fitting forms. It becomes a legal document witht he contract, and so the vendor has to be very clear and honest on this.

Its usually quite a long form where they have to disclose and give details of a number of things about the property, including boundary disputes, major building work, problems witht he neighbours, etc.

You mention planning permission and also building regs..these are two different things, so even if the 'garage' didnt need planning permission, it would still need to adhere to building regs, so make sure this doesnt get confused. If you are looking on the council website for planning permission, and its not there, doesnt mean its not had building regs approval.

If she applied for building regs approval, yes she would have had an inspector visit to check it was OK, but there should be some paperwork, he would not just have verbally said 'thats OK'

The vendor may seem very nice and honest, but dont assume she is as innocent as all that, its not only EAs that play games. The EA is naughty here too, if the vendor did infact tell them the garage was not really a garage, and they have gone ahead and marketed it as a proper garage. Its like marketing a loft as a bedroom when its just boarded out with a step ladder and not got the correct door, access,ventilation etc.

Difficult to say if the survey should have picked up on the 'garage' their main focus is to check the house is sound (damp, cracks, general upkeep etc) and worth the money that you are wanting to borrow against it. They usually highlight anything of concern and recommend specialist reports if necessary. Have a look at the paperwork from the company, do they give a general description about what they should look at?

Who are the 'they' that persuaded you not to have a more detailed survey?

lindos90

gravitytolls wrote: »

It could be that it passed building regs at the time of erection, but no longer complies.

If it passes at the time, then thats that afaik.

For example, if the regulations changed re the fire door having to be a 2 hour rather than 1 hour, then all new applications would have to adhere to this, but all previous ones that passed with a one hour fire door at the time, would not be recontacted and asked to upgrade their doors to 2 hour doors. (Unless if perhaps further work was done in the area, and a further application for building regs submitted.)

How would the vendor show that it did pass, but now doesnt compy? What evedence can she give? The vendor really needs to show all the paperwork so the OP can see for themselves...the devil is in the detail. If building regs approval was given, but with clear conditions attached (ie to be used as a store only, and not as a garage) then the vendor should show this in writing, damn good evidence to renegotiate, and the vendor will know damn well that even if they reject your lower offer, the same issue will crop up again next time!

Made_Without

lindos90 wrote: »

How would the vendor show that it did pass, but now doesnt compy? What evedence can she give? The vendor really needs to show all the paperwork so the OP can see for themselves...the devil is in the detail. If building regs approval was given, but with clear conditions attached (ie to be used as a store only, and not as a garage) then the vendor should show this in writing, damn good evidence to renegotiate, and the vendor will know damn well that even if they reject your lower offer, the same issue will crop up again next time!

I'm going to ask my solicitor to check on this on Monday. Lindos90 you really have been a great help!!

lindos90 wrote: »

Chocolate*fish...a PIQ is a property information questionnaire, or similarly named form that the vendor completes, usually along with the fixtures and fitting forms. It becomes a legal document witht he contract, and so the vendor has to be very clear and honest on this.

Its usually quite a long form where they have to disclose and give details of a number of things about the property, including boundary disputes, major building work, problems witht he neighbours, etc.

You mention planning permission and also building regs..these are two different things, so even if the 'garage' didnt need planning permission, it would still need to adhere to building regs, so make sure this doesnt get confused. If you are looking on the council website for planning permission, and its not there, doesnt mean its not had building regs approval.

If she applied for building regs approval, yes she would have had an inspector visit to check it was OK, but there should be some paperwork, he would not just have verbally said 'thats OK'

The vendor may seem very nice and honest, but dont assume she is as innocent as all that, its not only EAs that play games. The EA is naughty here too, if the vendor did infact tell them the garage was not really a garage, and they have gone ahead and marketed it as a proper garage. Its like marketing a loft as a bedroom when its just boarded out with a step ladder and not got the correct door, access,ventilation etc.

Difficult to say if the survey should have picked up on the 'garage' their main focus is to check the house is sound (damp, cracks, general upkeep etc) and worth the money that you are wanting to borrow against it. They usually highlight anything of concern and recommend specialist reports if necessary. Have a look at the paperwork from the company, do they give a general description about what they should look at?

Who are the 'they' that persuaded you not to have a more detailed survey?

'THEY' are the surveyors! I was more than happy to pay for a full structural but told me that for a property less than 100 years old and worth less than a million, it wasn't worth it!

The homebuyers came back with everything as a 1 (no repair currently needed) except for Electricity, Gas, Water and Heating which was a 2 with the standard get it checked as regs may have changed.

Thanks for your help thus far; I'm hoping this is quickly resolved next week.

C*F

gravitytolls

lindos90 wrote: »

If it passes at the time, then thats that afaik.

For example, if the regulations changed re the fire door having to be a 2 hour rather than 1 hour, then all new applications would have to adhere to this, but all previous ones that passed with a one hour fire door at the time, would not be recontacted and asked to upgrade their doors to 2 hour doors. (Unless if perhaps further work was done in the area, and a further application for building regs submitted.)

How would the vendor show that it did pass, but now doesnt compy? What evedence can she give? The vendor really needs to show all the paperwork so the OP can see for themselves...the devil is in the detail. If building regs approval was given, but with clear conditions attached (ie to be used as a store only, and not as a garage) then the vendor should show this in writing, damn good evidence to renegotiate, and the vendor will know damn well that even if they reject your lower offer, the same issue will crop up again next time!

Yes of course, and the vendor should have a paper trail, including the certificate issued passing it upon completion ~ the solicitor should've requested this. If she can't produce it, a copy can be obtained from the council ~ if one exists.

Re. rules changes, if any other alterations requiring building regs were needed, the structure may have required upgrading to current regs.

Anyhoo, it all just sounds like a bit of wordplay to get a little more on the price of a property if you ask me.

Made_Without

gravitytolls wrote: »

Yes of course, and the vendor should have a paper trail, including the certificate issued passing it upon completion ~ the solicitor should've requested this. If she can't produce it, a copy can be obtained from the council ~ if one exists.

I'm not sure if the solicitor has requested; but I will ask on Monday.

Re. rules changes, if any other alterations requiring building regs were needed, the structure may have required upgrading to current regs.

How would i find this out? Would the upgrading need to be paid by me or the current vendor?

Anyhoo, it all just sounds like a bit of wordplay to get a little more on the price of a property if you ask me.

Do you mean I'm trying to get money off the property? In all honesty, this really is not the case. But equally I cannot afford to buy a place which may require me to spend money remedying a garage which I believed to be fit-for-purpose.
Until Friday, I thought all was peachy and was really chuffed with this. I'm away for work from Tues til end of September and I really, really want to be able to exchange while away and complete on return. I definitely can do without the hassle that this may create

C*F

Running_Horse

As well as fire there is also the question of fumes going into the house. Most don't leave their cars running in the garage, but if you did so to warm it up or while you nipped out to do something, and then the fumes were drawn into a child's bedroom...

lindos90

I dont think it is primarily that the OP wants to put in a lower offer, and trying to find a reason to do so.

Its because the house was marketed as having a garage, so presumably the price would reflect this, whereas now the OP has found out that it is not officially a garage, and does not have building regs approval as a garage, and therfore is questioning the details, eg the price a garage can potentially put on a valuation, the legalities of its current status, and potentially the cost of building work needed to bring it up to scratch.