Boiler servicing woes

Cerro

To give a little back story (skip to the last paragraph if you have a short attention span )... I bought my property in Aberdeen at the beginning of 2007 and within a few months replaced the old boiler with a Viessmann Vitodens 100 fitted by a local viessmann certified installer with a 5 year warranty. In 2 and a half years I had two failures, one was due to a lack of pressure (which fixed myself) and the other was a stuck bevel / flap after returning from a months holiday.

I then moved down to sunny Wiltshire and rented out my place. In the past 6 months the boiler has broken down 3 times, each time it has required the pump to be replaced and each time it has taken nearly 10 days to fix! Needless to say my tenants are not happy with the situation (and in their shoes, I would be looking for a new place to live by now).

The first time the boiler broke down, I called up the installer and was told "we'll contact Viessmann and they will send out an engineer, they will arrange a date with your tenants". My tenants are Polish and don't speak a lot of English but they could agree dates. To my surprise I was then called by my tenants to tell me that the engineer failed to turn up and that they had to take a day off to wait for them, so they weren't happy. After a bit of chasing, the boiler was finally fixed. Two months later the boiler fails again with the same problem and once again it takes ages to get fixed. The third time it failed was when I was up doing a visit, so I got to see the problem first hand. This time, I decided to speak to Viessmann direct because I was getting mighty sick of chasing people. I was shocked to discover that Viessmann don't actually send an engineer out, they send the original installer to fix it! Once again the engineer failed to turn up and my tenants were left to go through the weekend without any hot water. Viessmann customer service tried to see if they could get other companies to come do the work at the weekend but by 4:30 on a Friday, most businesses were shut.

So now the pump has been replaced 3 times. Only this time the engineer called me to say "you need to get your system flushed as that is the cause of the problem - we won't replace another pump until you do so". Why they didn't say that the first time around, I'll never know? So I immediately called them up to arrange for them to flush the system - in fact if they had asked while replacing the pump I would have agreed to it there and then. Only every time I call to arrange it, I have to speak to one particular girl in the office who handles the orders, but as soon as I mention my name I get "she's busy on the other line, we'll call you back" I'm still waiting for my call. In the end I got my wife to call up and she got through and as soon as she mentioned the property she was told "it's on a waiting list, our engineer is on holiday". I sense a cop-out! :mad:


I have no faith in the installer carrying out further work / repairs on my boiler and their service is completely lacking. Can I have another company take up the remaining 2 years on the warranty or am I stuck with them? Should I speak to Viessmann and see if they can help? Will flushing the system really fix the problem? Should it be covered by the warranty or will I have to pay for it and if so, does it have to be done by the original installer? In the event that the pump fails again and the engineer doesn't turn up to flush the system what will happen? Are they within their rights to refuse to replace the pump, despite my asking for the system to be flushed? If it happens again and isn't fixed in 24hrs I'm going to lose my tenants (who could blame them?) and that's something I simply can't afford.

Canucklehead

Hi,

IMO you have a very good product but a boiler is only as good as it's installation and annual servicing

To start...

The stuck valve /flap is known as a 'jimmeyslapper'. It is prone to sticking with moisture and is indicative of water ingress. For example the flue outside might be under a leaking gutter or face into prevailing wind and therefore rain ingress. I have seen one with no terminal on the end! (that produced this fault)

You haven't stated which version of the 100 you have but I'll assume you have a combi with the pump built in.
Any pump is prone to failure in a dirty system (the rubber hoses are also affected by this as well) and in your case the system does sound like it could do with a flush and a magnetic filter fitted to prevent further problems.

If the system was fitted without flushing, inhibitor or a filter (either with or without your knowledge) it would be a little unfair to blame Viessmann for their failure. Was the installer working to your instructions as to installation costs/specification? Do you know if the RGI follow the manufacturer's instructions or completed the Benchmark Log?

I have had one warranty fault down here in the South (a faulty ignition module, which was a known fault). This was dealt with by an installer / service agent who was not local but travels quite a distance to deal with faults.

Up in your area Viessmann were probably a bit light on service agents but the network has and will continue to improve thoroughout the UK.


Has the boiler had annual servicing?

This information may not dissuade you from binning the boiler but might serve as a caution to others thinking of fitting a new boiler.
i.e. a boiler fitted and maintained properly will serve you well.

Further advice here.

Contact Viessmann directly to discuss these issues.


GSR.

gas4you

I am slightly confused. Is the engineer saying the system needs a flush, still the same one who fitted the boiler?

If so he is basically saying he didn't do his job right in the first place.

ALL new boiler installations should have the system flushed by one means or another, it is part of the installation instructions to say the least.

I don't know much about these boilers, but reading between the lines it is possibly not the boiler at fault. The only time I've had faulty Veissmanns, they have both had the expansion vessel rupture/perish at about 2 1/2 years and they hadn't been fitted with the benefit of a 5 year warranty.

Cerro

Canuklehead - I'm not blaming Viessmann, they have been helpful, it's the people who installed the thing that are the problem (the service agents). They take 10 days to even bother to look at it, I report a fault to them and they say "we'll contact Viessmann" but they don't do it for several days then they fail to turn up on the agreed date and I just get fobbed off on the phone with an endless list of excuses. In the meantime my tenants are left with no shower, no hot water, nothing.

And yes, it's a combi - WB1A. I do get an annual service, as a landlord I also need the gas safety certificate so they get done at the same time.

The system was flushed when it was installed. The place had an old baxi boiler (wasn't condensing) and they removed the water tanks and old pipes as part of the installation. When the pump first went the system had to be refilled as water leaked out of the boiler. As for a filter, I did ask the engineer when he did the install but he said "Nah, not really needed in this area, you'll be fine without one." As Gas4you said, if they had done the job right in the first place I wouldn't have gone through 3 pumps by now.

So what I really need to know is if it is possible to change service agents? I know of at least one other Viessmann certified engineer in Aberdeen. The fact the people are left without heat or hot water seems lost on the lot I have, they won't do weekends and they take at least two days to book in a visit. I'm still completely baffled as to why it took them 3 pumps to think "we should flush the system"!

I'm on a "waiting list" to have my system flushed but I wouldn't be surprised if it never gets done and my pump fails in the meantime - where would that leave me? How much should it cost to flush the system? Can I get another company in to do it?

gas4you

A rough price for a powerflush would be £350. You can employ any company to do this. All that matters for the warranty is that the system is clean.

I cannot see why you can't ask Veissman for another agent to visit, the only problem may be is how far that agent may have to travel.

You will never get an old system completely clean with a flush or even a powerflush, 80% clean would be good, that is why you then have a magnetic cleaner or such fitted as well, to try to remove the rest and protect the other components.

Cerro

Thanks for that, I read something around £300+ would be the expected cost for the flush. But basically, if I had the filter fitted when the boiler was installed I would have saved myself all this hassle plus £200 (assuming the filter is about £100).

On the upside it gets put down as an expense for tax purposes, small comfort. I'll call Viessmann and see if there are any other service agents in the area - even taking into account travel time, if the problem gets fixed quicker than 10 days, at least it's an improvement over what I have got!

macman

Make a written complain to Viessman about the quality of the service agent's work and say that in future you wil not accept any warranty work being done by this agent. If there is another Viessman agent in the town then they can't make any excuse for not agreeing to this.