Contract changing

debby1c

Dear Other renters

In July I was told my AST was up for renewal. My tenancy agreement was up to 31 August 2010 and turned out to be a fixed term. They wanted to know my intentions would I want a 6 month or a 12 month let, for a fee of course.
I got the fee reduced and said I would stay for a year. I wanted a periodic tenancy to avoid fees and further paperwork, but was denied this, as the agency said that the owner wanted the assurance of a tenant in the property.
A week ago I was told the owner couldn't commit to a 12 month let and wanted a 6 month, with a possible further 6 months. No fee would be charged! Yesterday I returned the lease signed.
Today I get an email stating the owner now wanted a 2 month break clause. According to ARLA website, this break clause is usually for tenancies of 12 months or more. I am wondering what my rights are as it is always in the owner's favour. Can I refuse the Break Clause as it not why I originally agreed? Can I negotiate a two month notice period for myself?
I have never come across anything like this before with previous lets and now feel very vulnerable. I don't even have the deposit for another property saved up, "short notice". I am a divorced mum, work full time with one teenage daughter. Good isn't it?

princeofpounds

Idiots. If they wanted a 2 month break clause they should have let it go periodic. Suspect the LA has been doing what they want to get a fee, not what the LL actually wanted them to do, although figuring out the true situation is hard.

But there is a basic answer to your main question. If they have awarded you a new contract (and it has been signed by the LL or agent of course) then they cannot get you out for 6 months, break clause or no break clause. That's just the law and you might want to mention that to them.

debby1c

Hi, thanks for that. I do believe that they can't keep changing their minds. I have signed the contract, but the LL hasn't yet. I suspect that the owner/LL wasn't even contacted concerning the renewal until the last minute. However, it is not what I agreed to originally, and obviously, I can't agree to this. A 6 month let is a 6 month let!
If I had to decide what I wanted to do in June, then the owner has had plenty of time to decide what they wanted to do.
I will let readers know what transpires.

G_M

You've signed a contract so if the LL countersigns it, it is binding - as it is (ie no break clause).

Ask the agent to return the one you've signed (so it cannot be countersigned by the LL) together with the new one (with break clause).

Then, once you've got back the one you signed, contact the LL and say if (s)he wants a 2 month break clause it would be better for all concerned (except the agent who will lose their fee) to simply move to a periodic tenancy.

If the agent/LL are not happy, stay firm. The LL's only other option is to issue a S21 and evict you - why would (s)he evict a reliable paying tenant? And from the LL's point of view there's little difference between a periodic tenancy and a 6 month one with a 2 month break clause.

debby1c

Hi GM

As my lease expires today 31 August and the LA (letting agent) has not signed my contract, I believe that the lease has now become a periodic tenancy!
I do feel that the LA has left it to the last minute to get their annual fee. I do not know the Landlords address/telephone number, but my neighbour does, I will see them tonight.
I know I can ask the LA for the landlord's details, but knowing them it will take a month to provide them.

Cheers

tbs624

debby1c wrote: »

Hi GM

As my lease expires today 31 August and the LA (letting agent) has not signed my contract, I believe that the lease has now become a periodic tenancy!
I do feel that the LA has left it to the last minute to get their annual fee. I do not know the Landlords address/telephone number, but my neighbour does, I will see them tonight.
I know I can ask the LA for the landlord's details, but knowing them it will take a month to provide them.

Cheers

By law, if you ask the LA for that info in writing they *have* to comply within 21 days of receiving your request. Criminal offence for them not to comply. ( just reminder for other readers - clearly you have another source close by;) and there is always the Land Reg option)

Unfortunately many LL have little idea what exactly the LA does, or does not do , in their name.

Have you previously been served with a valid s21 Notice for this tenancy btw?

debby1c

Hi

I have not been served with any S21 Notice as I don't think the LL wants to evict me.

For personal reasons that the LL could not tell the LA, she decided she didn't want to commit to a 12 month let. I agreed a 6 month let, on the basis that she would probably extend to another 6 month. (Thats what the LA told me). The 6 month let contract was signed by me and returned. But an email was sent to me saying LL wanted a 2 month break. Nothing has been done since - bank holiday weekend and all that.

Like I said in my previous post, I don't have a contract now, and as nothing has been done, it is a periodic. As the LA hasn't even bothered to call me, I am not calling them. I will try to get the Landlord to call me tonight.

debby1c

Well, it is now 2 September my 12 month fixed term lease expired. The LA hasn't bothered to pick up a phone to talk to me. I left a letter with next door neighbour, asking the owner to contact me with regard to periodic tenancy - nothing.

I have had to report a broken kitchen cupboard door this morning. Hinge is bust, I can't fix it already looked! This might prompt some communication from the LA.

:cool:

G_M

Although you may now have a periodic tenancy, I suspect that if you were to receive back your new signed contract in the next few days, and the signatures (your and LL's) were dated prior to 31 August, then you'd have a new fixed term. Whether it has a break clause in it depends whether the beak clause was inserted.

I also believe that even if a tenant moves onto a periodic tenancy, if they subsequently agree and sign a fixed term contract (with the same and/or different terms) then they would move back onto a fixed term contract - hence my original suggestion to try to get the one you signed back. It's existance makes you a hostage to fortune.

Finally - does your original contract not give an address for serving of notices on the LL? It should. If not, I would follow tbs624's advice and request (in writing) the LL's address.

debby1c

I have now spoken to the owner of the property. Who has contacted the LA, telling them to give me 2 months notice to leave. I have not heard anything from the LA. Last thing I heard was an email telling me owner wanted a 2 month break clause. But they didn't send me any new contract. The lease expired on 31 August 2010. As I have lived in the property over a day then the lease must be periodic.

The owner has offered me the chance to stay in the property until it is sold and go private with her. Would I be right, to think that the LA, will have to return my deposit on 4 November, if I remain in the property?
What kind of written agreement would be suitable. e.g. tenant to move out once the property is agreed sold within 6 weeks or something?

:rotfl:

theartfullodger

debby1c wrote: »

I have now spoken to the owner of the property. Who has contacted the LA, telling them to give me 2 months notice to leave. I have not heard anything from the LA. Last thing I heard was an email telling me owner wanted a 2 month break clause. But they didn't send me any new contract. The lease expired on 31 August 2010. As I have lived in the property over a day then the lease must be periodic.

Yup, it is now periodic: If LL wants you to leave he must give you at least 2 months notice expiring on period-end (ie end-of-month) so if he gave you notice today it would end 30th Nov 2010. You still don't have to leave then, but can wait for court order & bailiffs..

The owner has offered me the chance to stay in the property until it is sold and go private with her.

See what you signed between you & agent (no, not the tenancy, the thing you signed with the agency when you first met them). Might say you owe them money if you do a deal direct with LL

Would I be right, to think that the LA, will have to return my deposit on 4 November, if I remain in the property?

If your deposit is not returned then you can take legal action against agent or LL. But your contract is with LL, agent is just that, his agent.

What kind of written agreement would be suitable. e.g. tenant to move out once the property is agreed sold within 6 weeks or something?

Agreement can say what it likes but you will end up with a new AST: And an AST can't be ended by LL before 6 months is up unless...
a) You agree to go [what is in tenancy can't be enforced about leaving before 6 months]
b) If you get more than 2 months behind with the rent (and 2 months behind when the case gets to court)

Cheers!

Artful