Silly mistake-help please!

mumpig

I parked in town today, council car park, & paid for my ticket & left it in the machine!
When I got back to my car, within the hour I had paid for, I had a £25 ticket for not displaying a car park ticket.
What I need help with is does any one know if those machines where you have to enter the car reg no before you buy your ticket records the numbers so I can prove I paid?
My car is quite old so the number recorded is unlikely to be common and it was late so only a few cars parked so again very unlikely a car with the same numbers would be parked.
Is it worth me appealing or should I just pay up & get over it?
Thanks for any advice.

**curlywurly**

Do you lose anything by appealing? A similar thing happened to me once - I had the ticket on the dashboard, but it had turned over so the traffic warden couldn't see it. I sent it in and the fine was reversed.

mumpig

Forgot to say when I went to check the machine when I got back my ticket had gone, so wondering if machines record the numbers to prove I paid-but cannot see my council putting its self out to check a machine for a council tax payer to escape a contribution to its coffers!

McKneff

I would appeal, send the ticket in (or a photocopy) and explain the circumstances,
Mine fell onto the floor when i shut the car door and i didnt notice till I got back.
Luckily, we were near the office where the penalties were sorted, we took it in and the penalty was reversed.

Worth a try.

Coupon-mad

mumpig wrote: »

Forgot to say when I went to check the machine when I got back my ticket had gone, so wondering if machines record the numbers to prove I paid-but cannot see my council putting its self out to check a machine for a council tax payer to escape a contribution to its coffers!

It's always worth appealing IMHO even if you are bang to rights! I would appeal any Council ticket now, having seen the vast majority won on technicalities on pepipoo forums.

Firstly, I would register and post a copy (scan or close up picture but with car ID and PCN number blanked out) of the front & back of your PCN on pepipoo.com forums and ask for their advice as to whether the PCN looks compliant. See their stickies and FAQs for info:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

Draft a copy of what you want to use for your appeal wording (a short paragraph) and post that as well for the pepipoo posters to help you tweak. They don't have template letters on there - each case is different - but will help to improve wording if you show your draft letter.

Oh, and finally be aware that it's all a game to the council and they will probably decline your first appeal so don't spend ages on it! The point is, you will then have a Notice of Rejection (NoR) and then a Notice to Owner (NtO), both of which may have flaws to appeal on as well (ask pepipoo on your thread when you get those Notices through in due course).

By informally appealing the PCN you don't lose out - look on the back of the PCN and see that it probably says they extend the discounted fine period if you get an appeal (any appeal) in before the end of the 14th day. So no risk.

Then at NtO stage you get your chance to formally appeal, by which time you may have more ammo (e.g. the Council may muck up their replies, pepipoo will tell you!). If you feel you don't want to continue to appeal at that stage - after seeing what pepipoo posters think of your chances - then you can still pay the lower amount as long as you decide promptly after receiving the NtO.

Coblcris

Never return the original.

Equaliser123

**curlywurly** wrote: »

Do you lose anything by appealing? A similar thing happened to me once - I had the ticket on the dashboard, but it had turned over so the traffic warden couldn't see it. I sent it in and the fine was reversed.

Amazing. "turned over" all by itself?

Driver8

Equaliser123 wrote: »

Amazing. "turned over" all by itself?

With the draught of air from the car door shutting and not looking back at your ticket to make sure it's in the same position as you placed it, yes they can "turn over" by themselves.

Does that answer your question?

**curlywurly**

Yes, alas, I learned my lesson there. The gust of wind from the door must have blown on the ticket. I always double check now. My mistake, but I did manage to persuade the nice NCP people of my dilemma.

Equaliser123

Driver8 wrote: »

With the draught of air from the car door shutting and not looking back at your ticket to make sure it's in the same position as you placed it, yes they can "turn over" by themselves.

Does that answer your question?

Not particularly. I don't know anyone that doesn't quickly check that the ticket is visible from the outside.

Common sense in my opinion.

Coupon-mad

Hmmm...so you don't know anyone who might be otherwise concerned with sorting out children, babies, buggies, toddlers running off, disabled passengers, etc.? I have been in that situation and can tell you that having shut the boot when getting the buggy out, if my toddler was wandering a bit I would have been concentrating on him, not checking whether my already-displayed ticket had suddenly become dislodged!

With no distractions - driving alone or with just adult passengers - OF COURSE most drivers would have the common sense to check! But not all drivers have no distractions, count yourself lucky maybe?

Have you never parked a car with a sticky ticket on the windscreen on a day when your car has had its heater on? The ticket will stay there for a while - maybe the whole time you've parked there - but maybe not. P&D tickets have been known to work loose and fall down under such circumstances - is that the fault of the driver as well in your book?

Councils have clear guidance from adjudicators that they should cancel a PCN where the issue of a 'fluttering ticket' is raised and the payment proved by showing the P&D ticket in question. It's a well-known problem and clearly not one that deserves to be punished with a PCN.

In fact one could argue that Councils should only use more robust sticky tickets that adhere properly to windscreens in order to avoid the whole problem. But they don't, because it's a cash cow when people just pay the PCN and much cheaper to produce flimsy tickets.