Islmaic Mortage for a non believer?

LizEstelle

I'm happy with that. The purpose of post #5 was simply to point out that 'islamic mortgages' are a total sham in any case. A valid point, I would have thought... if unwelcome in certain quarters.

I_Claudius

LizEstelle wrote:

I'm happy with that. The purpose of post #5 was simply to point out that 'islamic mortgages' are a total sham in any case. A valid point, I would have thought... if unwelcome in certain quarters.

i'm sorry but i have to make one last comment; post 5 did more than try to "point out that 'islamic mortgages' are a total sham"

what is unwelcome in certain quarters (mine anyway) is that you then proceeded to call anyone who wanted islamic mortgages or to eat kosher / halal food (i.e. 99% of jews and muslims) 'religious zealots' with 'absurd beliefs'.

imho thats small minded, bigoted and not remotely neccasarry in the context of this thread

i'll say no more on the matter as i feel bad for taking this thread even further away from the OP.

Meatballs

It is my belief that not everyone has to value everyone else's beliefs. But as you do seem to hold that dear, you should value LizEstelle's belief to voice her disagreement with the beliefs of others? Oh I do enjoy arguining faiths online.

But getting back on topic, I doubt that these mortgages are very competitive as they are aimed at a market where they cant/dont want any other product. But would be interested in seeing what if any loopholes could be done with it!

I would think bank's would get in a huge amount of trouble for refusing people on the grounds of religion, as surely that is self defined, I can be a Jedi if I believe in it!

Ian_W

To cut through the crepe and go back to the OP's post

snapdragon69 wrote:

I'm sure most people are aware of the Sharia-compliant muslim mortgages, where instead of paying interest, the building-society buys the house and rents it to you at a profit for 25 years and then gives it to you.
The "rent" is remarkably similar to the cost of a standard repayment mortgage and they come in various forms like fixed and disounted varieties but overall it seems no cheaper [and for that matter no more expensive] than a conventional mortgage. In that respect the lender "giving" you the house is misleading at best.
I am told that the people who have these mortgages often find themselves unemployed at which point they get the RENT paid for indefinately (with certain limits on the monthly payments) by Housing Benefit welfare, whereas with a conventional mortgage you have to wait so many months and then they will give you so much towards the mortgage for a set period of time, so usually you lose the house. I have no intention of becoming unemployed, but with an increasingly likely recession in the next four years, maybe this is a sensible precaution.
It could be but personally I don't know enough about benefits to comment - I would advise you to check it out first though.
Has anyone any experience of this, will they want proof I am a muslim (I'm not)? The law doesn't allow discrimination on goods or services on religious grounds so I can't see how they could demmand proof or refuse you if you were not muslim.
Who does it apart from HSBC?
Lloyds TSB - see
https://www.lloydstsb.com/mortgages/islamic_home_finance.asp
and
https://www.lloydstsb.com/mortgages/islamic_home_finance_faqs.asp

I don't see how you'd be better off or worse off under the negative equity scenario either. Last thing you want to do in NE is move out BTW, only do it if no alternative. But say you buy £100k house with a £10k deposit or share using islamic finance, the market drops 20% so the house can only be sold for £80k. If you default on the mortgage or the rent the bank will sell for the best price they can - say £80k - either way you still owe them £10k which they're quite entitled to come after. One of LTSBs FAQ&A's includes:
Any appreciation or depreciation in value will be passed on to you on completion of the sale. They also make it clear that failure to pay the rent may mean repossession.

No bigger risk to the lender that I can see, in fact under islamic finance it is probably easier to repossess as the title deed is already in the lenders name - so less of a risk for the shareholders if anything.

Sorry to be boring and answer the OP.

lemontart

It would be interesting to see the figures on non muslim applications and actual numbers getting them, though you would need to know details as to why declined/accepted to validate the figures.

Beth
xx

jmarko

I_Claudius wrote:

i'm sorry but i have to make one last comment; post 5 did more than try to "point out that 'islamic mortgages' are a total sham"

what is unwelcome in certain quarters (mine anyway) is that you then proceeded to call anyone who wanted islamic mortgages or to eat kosher / halal food (i.e. 99% of jews and muslims) 'religious zealots' with 'absurd beliefs'.

imho thats small minded, bigoted and not remotely neccasarry in the context of this thread

i'll say no more on the matter as i feel bad for taking this thread even further away from the OP.

don't rise to it. LizEstelle's done this before. She posted something on whaling and then implied that my views didn't count because I had a foreign sounding name and another's didn't count because she was foreign (despite the fact that, on the core facts, we actually agreed with her!). Being generous, LizEstelle's a wind-up merchant.

jmarko

meher

I_Claudius wrote:

sorry, but i find the the snidey tone of your post pretty unpleasant

I_Claudius wrote:

the implication that all people who keep their diet kosher or halal are religious zealots is both untrue and offensive

To write off judaism and Islam as 'absurd beliefs' in a single sentence on a internet forum is pretty bad form, but you are of course entitled to your beliefs as indeed are jews and muslims.

I presume you find the celebration of easter and xmas equally infuriating and nonsensical, relying as they do on believing in virgin birth and people rising from the dead?

I think this debate is beyond the realms of a money saving forum but i felt compelled to reply as your (imo) pretty bigoted post left a bad taste in my mouth.........

btw i presume that by your logic all vegetarians (especially those crazy buddhist / hindu vegetarians) are kidding themselves also as they must regularily have molecules of meat fat landing on their food also. They might as well give up eh?

How different is your response to LizEstelle' original post, if only it's worse. Likely you'd find Buddhists' crazy because the philosophies of that great religion are unheard of and unknown to some which is why they have always been and continue to be world's greatest problems.

Regarding Islamic mortagage - it's not particularly clever - it doesn't boost the countrys' economy. And to go for it, you have two choices - you either need a big fat capital or you'd enter into a lease with the lender.

thescouselander

snapdragon69 wrote:

I'm sure most people are aware of the Sharia-compliant muslim mortgages, where instead of paying interest, the building-society buys the house and rents it to you at a profit for 25 years and then gives it to you.
I am told that the people who have these mortgages often find themselves unemployed at which point they get the RENT paid for indefinately (with certain limits on the monthly payments) by Housing Benefit welfare, whereas with a conventional mortgage you have to wait so many months and then they will give you so much towards the mortgage for a set period of time, so usually you lose the house. I have no intention of becoming unemployed, but with an increasingly likely recession in the next four years, maybe this is a sensible precaution. Has anyone any experience of this, will they want proof I am a muslim (I'm not)? Who does it apart from HSBC?
Thanks.

I'm curretntly in the process of buying a house off somebody with a Sharia Compluient mortgage and it has caused some level of difficulty. Basically the bank has to fill in some paperwork before the sale can proceed and they have ben dragging their feet. Obviously as long as the current owner has the house then his bank is still making money from him which is why I belive they are in no rush to see the sale go through.

dkny_2

Just like everyone else i have made my valid point and gave my personal advice to the OP, can WE all get back to the original post, as this is all gettin outta context... How ever i totally agree with i claudius...Well said

margaretclare

snapdragon69 wrote:

I'm sure most people are aware of the Sharia-compliant muslim mortgages, where instead of paying interest, the building-society buys the house and rents it to you at a profit for 25 years and then gives it to you.

I am not sure that most of us ARE aware of the thinking behind this type of mortgage. What is the objection to paying interest, and if there is an objection to paying interest, does that include gaining interest on a savings account? Why should a mortgage lender lend money to someone without getting anything in return i.e. interest?

I am told that the people who have these mortgages often find themselves unemployed at which point they get the RENT paid for indefinately (with certain limits on the monthly payments) by Housing Benefit welfare, whereas with a conventional mortgage you have to wait so many months and then they will give you so much towards the mortgage for a set period of time, so usually you lose the house. I have no intention of becoming unemployed, but with an increasingly likely recession in the next four years, maybe this is a sensible precaution. Has anyone any experience of this, will they want proof I am a muslim (I'm not)? Who does it apart from HSBC?

This sounds pretty unethical to me. HB is part of the 'safety net' that comes into place for people who become unemployed, long-term sick etc and that's only right and proper, but - although you qualify your statement by saying 'I have no intention of becoming unemployed (who ever has??) it sounds as if you think that by having a different type of mortgage you can somehow 'work the system'. It's my understanding that anyone, with any type of mortgage, can get the interest part of their mortgage paid for them if unemployment/sickness happens, so what would be the point of doing it this way?

Margaret