Elderly relative, care homes and selling houses...a complicated enquiry!

tanith

Sorry but its the way things work I'm afraid , her care has to be paid for and she has the means to pay via her property... this is how it is for many families why should yours be any different...

Bonny1

oh dear...

I have a feeling this thread is gonna get Ugly... :cool:

rushes off to get snacks and drinks and settles back on favourite chair :T

Bonny

sleepless_saver

Deleted_User wrote: »

The point in case here is that my nan doesn't need to go into a retirement home, but Social Services are pressing for this to happen as they don't have any other solution to the problem. My nan is not ill, either physically or mentally.

She doesn't need to go into a home just because social services say so in this case. She's not a danger to herself or others, she's just causing a lot of problems to the emergency services.

Has she ever been referred to a clinical psychologist (not a psychiatrist) to see if her behaviour can be changed and made less of a problem for all concerned? If not, might be worth asking GP about it.

baza52

Also if your unemployed dad gets his windfall he will have to use this money to live on if it takes him over the threshold for benefits.
His benefits may stop completely.

welshmoneylover

Deleted_User wrote: »

I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right place as my query covers so many different things, but hopefully someone can help. I'm posting this on behalf of my parents. I should warn you it's a pretty sad situation and I'm sure people might be quite critical!

My nan is 85 and to cut a long story short, has grown - quite sadly - to become a bit of a problem in our family. I won't go into the specifics but would ask others to trust and believe me when I say that my nan is a reasonably malicious individual who has caused my family and her other children a great deal of stress in recent times. It's a very sad state of affairs, but all brought on by my nan (she's basically a bit nutty and keeps making up illnesses to attract attention to herself...so much so that the police are considering a prosecution against her for wasting the resources of the emergency services for calling ambulances out on average twice a day).

The issue is this:

My nan is currently in hospital, being assessed, but there is nothing wrong with her. The doctors have all said she is physically in excellent health and mentally sound, which we have known all along. She keeps, however, creating illnesses to get her into hospital as she craves attention. In the past six months she has had a range of 'ailments' and whenever she is about to be discharged from hospital she always has a 'mysterious fall' which keeps her in. The situation is so bad that each time she is taken into hospital the staff no longer give her notice that she is going to be discharged until the taxi has arrived to take her home (otherwise she deliberately falls over/trips/vomits to prolong her stay).

Social services are now getting involved and are recommending that my nan is put into a care home as she is incapable to living independently without attention. I should point out that my nan lives 8 doors away from my parents!

My nan is the sole owner of a 3-bedroom house which my grandad bought with the intention that my nan lives in it, but that one day upon her death it gets sold and the proceeds split amongst their four children. All four children (one of which is my dad) have had a very tough life and have no savings at all (dad is unemployed, mum works) and this would have been a significant financial boost for them).

What we want to know is what happens if social services recommend my nan be put into a care home? They just haven't communicated with my dad at all and we've got no idea what might happen. Would they force her to sell the house and use the proceeds from that to fund her care? We've heard that this might be the case, but also that the care would be very expensive and so the proceeds from any house sale will soon be exhausted.

If my nan is to go into a home, is there any way of avoiding her having to sell the house?

The long and short of it is that my grandad worked all his life to provide a small but welcome windfall to his children, not envisaging how my nan would become such a problem. Now, thanks to her malice, all the children are likely to see nothing of any inheritance if the house were to be sold to provide my nan with care, even though there's nothing wrong with her.

Does anyone have any thoughts, suggestions or comments as to where to get advice from?

Like I said, it's a pretty sad state of affairs and so far I've kept out of it completely. Most grandparents are supposed to be loving and cherished, but in our family it's just not like that.

If your dad has had a tough life and have no savings, can he not find work? That's what most people do.

Yes, your nan's capital will affect any care she receives from SS. I hope she gets the care she needs too.

Katykat

OK,first of all BJ, it matters not what your Nans behaviour is like. Its not for us to judge, though there will be people on here who cant help judging. Let me say first of all that I understand how you feel, I have had a similar situation, but in my case, my relative is ill. Still, we had to sell the house to pay for her care. Although we are led to believe that the NHS pays for care "from the cradle to the grave", alas this is not the case. The NHS will refuse to pay for care as long as they can. In the end, after appeals ( sometimes lasting for many, many yrs) some people win their case. However, you say your nan isn't ill, so basically, her care will be social and this care is means tested. Her house is part of her capital, along with any savings. Yes, its been asked how you could expect taxpayers to pay for her care whilst you pocket the money from the house, and its correct, but so is the argument that that the family home is expected to inherited by the family. As it stands, there is nothing you can do to avoid selling the house to pay for her care. Its a bitter pill to swallow, but I'm afraid you are going to have to swallow it. You have to learn to rise above it.

bryanb

There is one way that selling the house might be avoided. The council "may" ignore the value of it if a relative of hers (Over 60yrs) is living there and has no other place to live. But it's not possible to arrange this scenario "Last minute" They are wise to that.

Errata

Sleepless Saver makes an important point. The lady has been assessed as physically ok and has capacity. Social Services can make recommendations, but they are only that - not orders.
Clearly the lady perhaps has some emotional problems and this is what she needs help and support with, not being shuffled off into a care home which it would appear she doesn't need and perhaps doesn't want. Perhaps a day at a day centre, or even two days, a week may be enough to make her feel that attention is being paid to her. Again, that would be for her to decide.
If in the end the best solution is for the lady to move into residential care, and this is acceptable to the lady, then the house must be sold to fund her care. However, she will be allowed to keep c£12k from the sale of the house to bequeath when she dies. This may be to the cats home, if that's what she wants.

andyandflo

Katykat wrote: »

OK,first of all BJ, it matters not what your Nans behaviour is like. Its not for us to judge, though there will be people on here who cant help judging. Let me say first of all that I understand how you feel, I have had a similar situation, but in my case, my relative is ill. Still, we had to sell the house to pay for her care. Although we are led to believe that the NHS pays for care "from the cradle to the grave", alas this is not the case. The NHS will refuse to pay for care as long as they can. In the end, after appeals ( sometimes lasting for many, many yrs) some people win their case. However, you say your nan isn't ill, so basically, her care will be social and this care is means tested. Her house is part of her capital, along with any savings. Yes, its been asked how you could expect taxpayers to pay for her care whilst you pocket the money from the house, and its correct, but so is the argument that that the family home is expected to inherited by the family. As it stands, there is nothing you can do to avoid selling the house to pay for her care. Its a bitter pill to swallow, but I'm afraid you are going to have to swallow it. You have to learn to rise above it.

I can understand most of the comments on here but why has no one given this family any advice on how to mitigate the loss of the inheritance?

Most people I know have taken steps to ensure that certainly between husband and wife, the family home will never be treated as capital if either or both go into care. Likewise, protecting the family home for the children is quite a simple exercise. Whether it is too late now - I don't know, but you just can't sit on it and do nothing. Why put yourself in a position that this can happen, has nobody ever heard of 'financial planning'?

The NHS/Social Services is there to pay for this care. Those that get caught by them and have to pay for it privately have probably never considered the what if's. Maybe it is the same bunch of people that do not have financial and tax efficient wills drawn up and have them kept up to date with annual reviews.

This funding malarkey for care, is totally voluntary - the same as Inheritance Tax is. I would suggest that they invest a little time, effort and money and obtain professional legal advice. Why on earth it has been left to the last knockings is anybody's guess!

I dispair when I hear these stories and those about the family having to pay tax on a family member's estate following death.

cavework

Hi,
I,m just wondering if anyone has asked your Nan what she wants?
It might be that she is finding things too difficult living in a 3 bed house on her own.
Obviously there are problems within the family but perhaps your Dad and his siblings could try to sit down and talk to her?
There are other options avaliable. If your Nan is physically and mentally able there is nothing to stop her selling her home and moving into a warden controlled enviroment, it does not have to be a residential home, she could even have her own little bungalow and pay rent. She would retain some independance but also have others around her which might stop the attention seeking.