Elderly relative, care homes and selling houses...a complicated enquiry!

[Deleted User]

I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right place as my query covers so many different things, but hopefully someone can help. I'm posting this on behalf of my parents. I should warn you it's a pretty sad situation and I'm sure people might be quite critical!

My nan is 85 and to cut a long story short, has grown - quite sadly - to become a bit of a problem in our family. I won't go into the specifics but would ask others to trust and believe me when I say that my nan is a reasonably malicious individual who has caused my family and her other children a great deal of stress in recent times. It's a very sad state of affairs, but all brought on by my nan (she's basically a bit nutty and keeps making up illnesses to attract attention to herself...so much so that the police are considering a prosecution against her for wasting the resources of the emergency services for calling ambulances out on average twice a day).

The issue is this:

My nan is currently in hospital, being assessed, but there is nothing wrong with her. The doctors have all said she is physically in excellent health and mentally sound, which we have known all along. She keeps, however, creating illnesses to get her into hospital as she craves attention. In the past six months she has had a range of 'ailments' and whenever she is about to be discharged from hospital she always has a 'mysterious fall' which keeps her in. The situation is so bad that each time she is taken into hospital the staff no longer give her notice that she is going to be discharged until the taxi has arrived to take her home (otherwise she deliberately falls over/trips/vomits to prolong her stay).

Social services are now getting involved and are recommending that my nan is put into a care home as she is incapable to living independently without attention. I should point out that my nan lives 8 doors away from my parents!

My nan is the sole owner of a 3-bedroom house which my grandad bought with the intention that my nan lives in it, but that one day upon her death it gets sold and the proceeds split amongst their four children. All four children (one of which is my dad) have had a very tough life and have no savings at all (dad is unemployed, mum works) and this would have been a significant financial boost for them).

What we want to know is what happens if social services recommend my nan be put into a care home? They just haven't communicated with my dad at all and we've got no idea what might happen. Would they force her to sell the house and use the proceeds from that to fund her care? We've heard that this might be the case, but also that the care would be very expensive and so the proceeds from any house sale will soon be exhausted.

If my nan is to go into a home, is there any way of avoiding her having to sell the house?

The long and short of it is that my grandad worked all his life to provide a small but welcome windfall to his children, not envisaging how my nan would become such a problem. Now, thanks to her malice, all the children are likely to see nothing of any inheritance if the house were to be sold to provide my nan with care, even though there's nothing wrong with her.

Does anyone have any thoughts, suggestions or comments as to where to get advice from?

Like I said, it's a pretty sad state of affairs and so far I've kept out of it completely. Most grandparents are supposed to be loving and cherished, but in our family it's just not like that.

bryanb

The council cannot force the sale of her house. But they can build up a debt in her name,and put a charge on the house, which will force the sale of the house when she dies, to pay the debt.
This could be advantageous to her estate if house prices rise.
Sorry but the only way to prevent the eventual sale is to pay the fees from some other source.
If it could be shown that she needs 100% nursing care the NHS should pick up the tab, but it sounds as though she needs residential care.

roddydogs

Hope your in a bomb-proof shelter before replies come in........im pretty sure what most people will think.

Oldernotwiser

Deleted_User wrote: »

The long and short of it is that my grandad worked all his life to provide a small but welcome windfall to his children, not envisaging how my nan would become such a problem. Now, thanks to her malice, all the children are likely to see nothing of any inheritance if the house were to be sold to provide my nan with care, even though there's nothing wrong with her.
.

I'm sure that your grandfather would have been far more concerned that his wife should have the care she needs rather than worry about leaving a windfall to his children!

What I find really sad (and somewhat strange) is that your grandmother seems so desperately to be in need of attention when your parents live so close to her and your father doesn't even work! Perhaps if they gave her the care and attention she craves, they might still be able to have their windfall?

Jowo_2

The OPs query is quite simple despite the extensive background - will the grandmother's transfer into care affect her capital? And the answer is yes, this is most likely.

As for her condition, whether this is a personality disorder or cry for help, etc, we cannot and should not judge. My grandfather was violent towards his carers when he had no mental illness, bourne out of frustration with his life, a bad temper, perhaps alcohol withdrawal. Later he became psychotic due to an infection he had and truly believed he was being held against his will and regularly telephoned the police to 'release' him.

[Deleted User]

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I'm sure that your grandfather would have been far more concerned that his wife should have the care she needs rather than worry about leaving a windfall to his children!

What I find really sad (and somewhat strange) is that your grandmother seems so desperately to be in need of attention when your parents live so close to her and your father doesn't even work! Perhaps if they gave her the care and attention she craves, they might still be able to have their windfall?

With respect, as I mentioned in my original post - just believe what I say rather than applying your subjective opinion to a situation you know very little about.

As it happens, my grandfather and nan never saw eye to eye and she was an enormous stress in his life! My gran and grandad lived separate lives as they grew older and I can assure you that the purchase of the property was motivated by his children rather than his wife. It's sad - you're right - but just accept my word on this one.

My parents give my nan an enormous amount of attention - perhaps visiting her 3 - 4 times daily and being on-hand 24/7 to help her however she needs help. What you don't have the insight to be able to judge on, however, is that the family relationship with my gran goes back 20/30 years and that my nan has been a 'public nuisance' for a long, long time. We have bent over backwards to support her but she is truly troublesome. The fact that the emergency services have now barred her number (it diverts to a social care line instead) and are considering a prosecution against her would speak volumes.

Like I said, I'm on your side here - I think it's a really really sad situation that a family relationship has broken down so badly.

mia01

My grandmother lived in residential care during the last few years of her life. She did not have to sell her house but when she did pass, some of the proceeds from the sale of her house was paid by my mum and aunt to fund the time she spent in care. That was several years ago now so not sure if the same rules apply?

Vader123

If the family don't want to pay for her care needs, nor use the house to finance them, how do you propose they get paid? Or is the suggestion here that "someone else" (read "tax payers") pay for it, while the family get their cut from the sale of the house? Ouch. You might need a thick skin.

It would be nice for the children to get their hands on their "inheritance", but the house is there for the benefit of your nan.

The factsheets on this page will provide you with more detail.

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/publications/home-and-care-publications-/

Vader

woody01

If my nan is to go into a home, is there any way of avoiding her having to sell the house?

No, and why should there be?
I have to provide a roof for myself and my family so why should an elderly relative be any different just so someone else doesn't have to lose their inheritance?

The long and short of it is that my grandad worked all his life to provide a small but welcome windfall to his children, not envisaging how my nan would become such a problem. Now, thanks to her malice, all the children are likely to see nothing of any inheritance if the house were to be sold to provide my nan with care, even though there's nothing wrong with her.

I've have workied hard for almost 25 years.............i provide for my family.......why should i provide for yours aswell, whilst you pick up the inheritance?

[Deleted User]

woody01 wrote: »

No, and why should there be?
I have to provide a roof for myself and my family so why should an elderly relative be any different just so someone else doesn't have to lose their inheritance?


So you think it is better that your dad, and the three siblings pick up a fat wad of cash from your nans estate, whilst hard working people pay for your nan's care through their taxes?

Do you not think that my grandparents, parents and I pay taxes too?

The point in case here is that my nan doesn't need to go into a retirement home, but Social Services are pressing for this to happen as they don't have any other solution to the problem. My nan is not ill, either physically or mentally.

Lady_gaga

Then who do you expect to pay for her care? you can't have it all ways, sounds like you want rid of her as she annoys you all but you think the state should pay for her care to safe guard any inheritance. If she has the means there to pay for her own care then yes the house can and will be used either before or after to settle the bill. You sound like a lovely family (wish the rolley eye icon was still here)