Hot water costs

macman

So how did I use 34 kWh in one day to heat the tank of water up from cold?

Well, as you said yourself ad infinitum, it all depends...
There are many potential variables in your own test method which make it entirely unscientific. Was gas being used for any other purposes, (eg central heating, gas fire, gas cooker)? How do you know exactly what your pilot light consumption is? Was the ambient temperature the same on both days?
You can quote your figures as often as you like, but it won't make you able to defy the laws of physics, as Cardew has most eloquently pointed out.
And why do you insist that this principle is correct for a tank of hot water, but then accept that it doesn't apply for central heating?

Cardew

st999 wrote: »

Would you leave a pilot light burning for 14 days with no one in the house?

Plus that would mean I was using gas when no one was in the house, not very money saving is it?

Well if your sole [STRIKE]excuse[/STRIKE] reason is the pilot light, and not the fact that The Laws of Thermodynamics prove your theory is false, people should leave on the immersion heater when they go away for 2 years, 1 year, 2 weeks, etc.

Presumably your theory suggests that in winter you should leave your heating on 24/7 as it is cheaper than having it timed as ''it costs less than turning off the gas, then heating the house up again?'

st999

someone goes on holiday for 14 days and leaves their gas pilot light on. There is a slight leak of gas which is not normally noticed as internal doors are being opened and shut and windows are normally open. So goes on holiday and shuts all the windows and locks them because insurance says so. Also leaves all internal doors closed. There is a very slight leak of gas in the room where the boiler is.

10 days later

BOOM
if you want to leave your house empty for 14 days with a naked flame that is you perogative, I won't

st999

D'oh! But that is exactly what you are doing by leaving the hot water on continuously

but the hot water is not being heated continuously, there is a thing called a thermostat, you have heard of them? and which kettles do not normally have, that is why they switch off when the water boils, which turns the gas burner on and off and maintains the temperature of the water in the hot water tank and heats up the replacement water when hot water is used.

Anyway I believe what I believe and if you lot think I am going to get up every morning and turn on my pilot light and wait until the gas burner can heat the water before I can have my shower think again.

For 30p a day to heat the water plus of course the 10p for the pilot light and possibly another 20p for cooking I am leaving it on 24/7/365

How much do you lot pay a day for heating your water to have a ten minute shower and a bath every day.?

macman

and wait until the gas burner can heat the water before I can have my shower think again.

That's why you have a timer. You set the timer to come on an hour or so before you want the hot water, that way it's hot when you get up, and hot before you come home or go to bed-and the heat loss is minimised. It works for millions of households this way.
No one is suggesting you extinguish the pilot light to save gas anyway. And modern boilers do not even have them, so it's irrelevant.

Cardew

st999 wrote: »

there is a thing called a thermostat, you have heard of them?


Anyway I believe what I believe and if you lot think I am going to get up every morning and turn on my pilot light and wait until the gas burner can heat the water before I can have my shower think again.

For 30p a day to heat the water plus of course the 10p for the pilot light and possibly another 20p for cooking I am leaving it on 24/7/365

How much do you lot pay a day for heating your water to have a ten minute shower and a bath every day.?

Lots of people believe the earth is flat!

Only you have stressed the dangers of a pilot light and suggested it should be switched off.

The idea of these things called 'timers'(have you heard of them? wonderful inventions that came in before thermostats;)) is that they turn on the hot water before you get up in the morning.

Doesn't matter how much your hot water costs you, it undoubtedly would be cheaper if you had it timed instead of on 24/7!!!! - albeit not by much!

st999

That's why you have a timer.

But I don't have a timer. Where have I ever mentioned I have a timer for my hot water.


To save you all the bother of suggesting a timer, I can't have a timer, my hot water system cannot be fitted with a timer but of course you will all ask why anyway.

Have you never had a fireman round your house suggesting you unplug everything at night that is not necessary as most house fires during the night are caused by faulty electrical appliances?

And you want me to leave a naked flame in an unoccupied house for 14 days?

I'd rather turn it off than come back to a burnt down house.

st999

Lots of people believe the earth is flat!

It isn't? Oh my God!

Cardew

st999 wrote: »

But I don't have a timer. Where have I ever mentioned I have a timer for my hot water.


To save you all the bother of suggesting a timer, I can't have a timer, my hot water system cannot be fitted with a timer but of course you will all ask why anyway.

.

So let us get this straight,

The OP asked the following question(which is the subject of the thread)

I am having a 'dispute' with my son regarding the cost of heating water. I believe it is cheaper to have the water heating on a timer morning and evening as no one is home during the day. But my son insists that it costs no more having it on constant

So you, without even having a timer on your system, felt qualified to say having it on 24/7 was less expensive.

Not content with inventing your version of the Laws of Thermodynamics, you try every tactic to divert the discussion away from your patently silly answer - rather than admitting you have got it completly wrong!

st999

I never said in my first reply that it would be better for the OP to leave his water on all the time than timed but no one seems to have noticed that.

So you, without even having a timer on your system, felt qualified to say having it on 24/7 was less expensive

based upon my experience of my usage my answer was it was less expensive for me

which seems to have been overlooked.

However I was answering macman who said

the answer is always the same

to which I said

No it's not, It depends!

and gave an example based upon my experience which basically was, if my gas was turned off, whether manually or by a timer it was that I used less gas leaving it on all the time.

Of course this was like a red flag to a bull to some people who think that in every circumstance they are correct and no one else can give a different opinion.

That is why I said

No it's not, It depends!

They then start spouting facts and figures that bear no relationship to the original answer that I gave.

For instance what has

if I drive my car 100 miles it uses twice as much fuel as if I drive it 50 miles...

got to do with anything?

My father used to have a six cylinder Vauxhall Cresta which had terrible fuel consumption, in the middle of winter when I got to drive it to my work, a distance of 2 miles there and back (twice) 8 miles a day we were lucky if we got 15 mpg and yet at a steady speed of 60 mph we got 26 mpg. Not double but not the same either.

Same as you Cardew, you like to bring out the kettle analogy but it is not like for like.

A kettle does not have insulation and a thermostat ( except some vastly overated kettles that cost more to buy than they would ever save in electricity) so you cannot compare a hot water tank fully insulated with an uninsulated kettle.