kicked out any chance of getting back in army?

Apples2

Who would you rather send thousands of miles overseas to stick a bayonet on the end of his rifle, face (and kill) people who would cut his limbs off rather than speak to him and expect him to put his life on the line for you???

A Librarian perhaps??

There is a VERY fine line between what we expect our Servicemen to do and Yobbish behaviour.
Trying to train them well enough to want to fight to Kill, whilst maintaining their discipline is a very difficult task.

Sometimes those boundaries cloud over(especially after drink is involved)

It has often shocked me to see how violent squaddies are, fighting, vandalism, even muggings seem to go relatively unpunished (aside for a few extra duties).
If any group of people are going to have to engage in a physical fight to the death, I would rather those guys went to do it.... rather than a Librarian.

Sounds like the OP's Son was one guy who couldn't maintain the discipline along with the physical demands, which led to violence surfacing when it should have been controlled.



EDIT: My reply was aimed at a post full of abuse above this toward the OP's Son, this post was in defence of both the OP's son, and the Armed Forces in General.
The abusive post has been deleted now.

Sallys_Savings

Very helpful...thank you.
I just asked for a little help not abuse..you havent a clue what he has gone through and only the brief outline of what happened.

I could of expanded about the bounchers kicking and punching him...laughing and mocking at the armed forces....his army id card being passed around making insulting comments. The bouncer saying crude things he wanted to do to his sister etc etc..........

Yes he made a few mistakes...perhaps you never have

Sallys_Savings

Because he was bloomin good at his job and came out with a glowing reference

Thank you for your helpful comment

Sallys_Savings

Apples2 wrote: »

Who would you rather send thousands of miles overseas to stick a bayonet on the end of his rifle, face (and kill) people who would cut his limbs off rather than speak to him and expect him to put his life on the line for you???

A Librarian perhaps??

There is a VERY fine line between what we expect our Servicemen to do and Yobbish behaviour.
Trying to train them well enough to want to fight to Kill, whilst maintaining their discipline is a very difficult task.

Sometimes those boundaries cloud over(especially after drink is involved)

It has often shocked me to see how violent squaddies are, fighting, vandalism, even muggings seem to go relatively unpunished (aside for a few extra duties).
If any group of people are going to have to engage in a physical fight to the death, I would rather those guys went to do it.... rather than a Librarian.

Sounds like the OP's Son was one guy who couldn't maintain the discipline along with the physical demands, which led to violence surfacing when it should have been controlled.

Thank you ...there is a fine line and he has to learn to control it.
The army train them to act one way and it overflows into civie street.

Alias_Omega

Sally,

This thread will naturally attract peoples personal views on the subject, but the only way to find out the truth is to actually visit the Army Recruitment Office, and re-apply.

Regards,

Alias

BLT_2

Sallys_Savings wrote: »

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone had any info that would help me.
I will try to be as brief as possible
My son was in the Paras for 5 years.
A week back from Afghanistan he had too much to drink and was "mouthy" towards some bouncers. He was pushed to the floor and he struggled, the bouncers were unable to control him and called the police saying he was on drugs. He was not on drugs at all and this was proven. He was just obviously on "high alert" from just coming back from afghan. He didnt hit/thump/kick anyone it was all just verbal apart from struggling. He went to court was fined and was given a warning back at barracks.
A year later he found himself in a bit of bother again. He was again being "mouthy" to bouncers. Didnt lay a finger on anyone eventhough he did threaten and called someone a "racist" name. My son is not racist at all...has many mixed race friends and one of his closest friends is as black as could be. It was just a "word" that came out when he was angry. He did shout and swear (he'd been kicked out of the club after someone had started on him (the bouncers agreed that it wasnt his fault). My son wouldnt let it lie and kept shouting that they should let him back in. Police happened to be walking by and arrested him. He went to court etc and then nothing was said at barracks until 4 months later when he was dismissed. He went to appeal and he didnt win (does anyone ever?)
He has never been in any trouble before or after these incidents.
He is absolutely devastated, the army was his life and the committment and comradeship he had in the paras was something he lived for. He had intended staying in for his working life.
He is really struggling to live on civie street, eventhough he has a new job, girlfriend etc.
I just wanted to know, is there any chance of ever getting back into the forces?
Does anyone know who he would be able to talk to now he is out of the Paras?
I'd appreciate any replies...thank you

I'm afraid your son is only giving you part of the story. Firstly it is extremely doubtful that your son would be dismissed for 2 minor altercations in a nightclub, this is practically rigeur de joure for many young soldiers.

Notwithstanding this, the rest of his story is absolutely unbelievable, to state that he heard nothing for 4 months until he was kicked out is not credible. He would have had numerous interviews with the RSM and Adjt.

Yes the Army is at full manning, but they still wish to retain the services of professional and dedicated young soldiers, I suspect your son has a history of misdemeanours and fracas which he has failed to advise you of.

With regards to re-enlistment, when a soldier is discharged from the Army a recommendation is made on his discharge papers as to whether he should be permitted to re-enlist. Given what you have said about your son, and rightly or wrongly reading between the lines, I suspect he has no chance of being allowed to re-enlist.

I note with interest the comments by posters regarding soldiers being inherently violent. This is not actually the case, yes the Army does train them for combat, but conversely they teach them discipline, and rightly frown on them using violence on the very people they are committed to defend.

Finally I notice you state that he was discharged with a glowing reference. You should be aware that the Army are obligated to provided glowing references, they are not actually allowed to make any derogatory comments which would affect a discharged soldiers chances of obtaining future employment.

neas

My brother in law was in the forces, and my two cousins... all stocky people who could handle themselves.... went out drinking with them and they never ever caused bother... If anything just like martial arts training that training to be able to kill someone or handle yourself in close combat allows you discipline and restraint as well as the ability to fight.

Certainly from a martial arts perspective you gain an awareness of danger and hot to diffuse situations without using your fists. Unfortunately there are those that join martial arts to 'kick !!!' and will abuse that knowledge/training to 'show their weight'. Back in civilian society its not on that a professionally trained fighter should use this to intimidate and or injure someone maliciously. Afteralll the tax payer pays for that training... its not on that they be at the receiving end of it.

tinkerbell28

This thread has actually annoyed me and it's one of the reasons all forces get such a hard time and labelled as thuggish drunks by locals.

Lots go over to Afghan and do they same training, and don't use it as an excuse to behave like this. Not doubting pressures are there and things happen sometimes etc, but it is not the norm.

Chances are more has happened here the op does not make sense within the timelines. Plus as it made the press, will the Army really want to seen to be recruiting a racist, violent ex squaddie as you just know that's how the press will play it if they catch wind.

Maybe the Army is different I know for the RAF, they won't even look twice at you if you have been discharged in that manner.

Recruiting offices are full, cutbacks coming why would they retake him? That's a longer explanation of what I said the other night, I was tired.

But this is not normal behavour for service personel, the majority of whom have discipline and are respectful, so lets stop pretending this is what they all do to justify it, they don't. It's quite offensive really to those who don't behave like it and are in the majority.

neas

Exactly, training should give you not only the ability to use that knowledge but also the knowledge how to diffuse a situation without using it.

Its just the people who naturally are violent or joined the army for similar reasons who misuse this...

BAILEYS6904

Apples2 wrote: »

It has often shocked me to see how violent squaddies are, fighting, vandalism, even muggings seem to go relatively unpunished (aside for a few extra duties).
.

I think you mean 'SOME' squaddies. Same as 'SOME' civvies. Yes the guys are trained to kill/protect. Doesnt necessarily mean they all turn into raging psychopath killing machines.

I have never even heard my OH (serving squaddie) raise his voice.

Some people deal with the training and realise the subsequent responsibilities, some dont. It sounds like the OP's son is one that struggled.