If I hand in my notice will I get paid?

K_Limpert

emilyteach1 wrote: »

You're not supposed to give reliable advice. Of course, there's nothing to stop you from doing so [and it does appear that it could be extremely useful], but as a non-moderated forum, MSE guidelines point out that post shouldn't be construed as official advice, and that users should take all advice with a pinch of salt, whether it's financial, legal or whatever.

With respect, using your real name on a forum does not necessarily mean that you are a qualified lawyer. I'm not aying you aren't, but surely you've heard of impersonation?

Wow, so there are actually pleasant people on MSE too!

Thank you for that Emily, and to clarify a few points:

• I don't see the point in posting if the comments couldn't even be deemed possibly reliable, but for that reason, legal references are provided in my posts too - so no-one has to rely on my views, which are not offered as official advice anyway, but merely a qualification for my comments. (Apparently this isn't liked either though.)
  
  Consider this though: if an employee (as in this thread) was to act on the advice from this thread, should they challenge their manager with comments like "I know this is so because someone on MSE told me it is", or with an understanding of why proposed actions are wrong & the legal arguments to back up their case? (It appears the MSE members prefer the former, and as far as I'm concerned, I expect that will be all they have in the future.)
  
  
• I have heard of impersonation, and I've also heard of Google - the latter sends me an email anytime it finds my name (or my trading name) on the Internet, so if I was impersonated, I would address that, but I appreciate your comments nonetheless;
  
  
• as it has been such a controversial subject, to explain further the reason I include my name in my posts (on any forums I post on), it is to qualify the advice I offer: by posting anonymously, anyone can (and apparently does) say anything they care too - no risks to your professional standing if you post anonymously. As what they say - the advice possibly being really helpful or alternatively dreadfully wrong - has no influence on their professional standing, who cares what an anonymous person says, and whether they have been careful to be accurate about the advice they posted?
  
  By being open about this, I'm putting my professional status on the line if I offer poor advice (I've not found clients that really care about any harsh attitude I adopt towards nonsense): effectively what I'm saying to viewers of a thread is that I have taken the time to consider my reply and endorse my comments with my personal & business reputation at stake if I'm wrong.
  
  With a considered & comprehensive response, MSE (or users of other forums) can then at least determine if they want to take further action/seek further advice on the issue they raised, and if so, they would hopefully have a basic understanding on which to proceed - based not on anonymous sources, but someone that is willing to put their knowledge of the subject on the line.
  
  It's for the readers to treat the advice as they care, but simply replying "yes" to the OP in this thread really wouldn't have helped them in any way whatsoever.

Sadly it appears that none of this matters to MSE users, and if they prefer to effectively chat about issues (seems a pointless exercise to me) without even sharing what might be sources of reliable advice, that's their choice.


Karl Limpert

emilyteach1

K_Limpert wrote: »

Wow, so there are actually pleasant people on MSE too!

Thank you for that Emily, and to clarify a few points:

• I don't see the point in posting if the comments couldn't even be deemed possibly reliable, but for that reason, legal references are provided in my posts too - so no-one has to rely on my views, which are not offered as official advice anyway, but merely a qualification for my comments. (Apparently this isn't liked either though.)
  
  Consider this though: if an employee (as in this thread) was to act on the advice from this thread, should they challenge their manager with comments like "I know this is so because someone on MSE told me it is", or with an understanding of why proposed actions are wrong & the legal arguments to back up their case? (It appears the MSE members prefer the former, and as far as I'm concerned, I expect that will be all they have in the future.)
  
  
• I have heard of impersonation, and I've also heard of Google - the latter sends me an email anytime it finds my name (or my trading name) on the Internet, so if I was impersonated, I would address that, but I appreciate your comments nonetheless;
  
  
• as it has been such a controversial subject, to explain further the reason I include my name in my posts (on any forums I post on), it is to qualify the advice I offer: by posting anonymously, anyone can (and apparently does) say anything they care too - no risks to your professional standing if you post anonymously. As what they say - the advice possibly being really helpful or alternatively dreadfully wrong - has no influence on their professional standing, who cares what an anonymous person says, and whether they have been careful to be accurate about the advice they posted?
  
  By being open about this, I'm putting my professional status on the line if I offer poor advice (I've not found clients that really care about any harsh attitude I adopt towards nonsense): effectively what I'm saying to viewers of a thread is that I have taken the time to consider my reply and endorse my comments with my personal & business reputation at stake if I'm wrong.
  
  With a considered & comprehensive response, MSE (or users of other forums) can then at least determine if they want to take further action/seek further advice on the issue they raised, and if so, they would hopefully have a basic understanding on which to proceed - based not on anonymous sources, but someone that is willing to put their knowledge of the subject on the line.
  
  It's for the readers to treat the advice as they care, but simply replying "yes" to the OP in this thread really wouldn't have helped them in any way whatsoever.

Sadly it appears that none of this matters to MSE users, and if they prefer to effectively chat about issues (seems a pointless exercise to me) without even sharing what might be sources of reliable advice, that's their choice.


Karl Limpert

Genuine question, asked out of interest, and completely devoid of any attention to be 'snarky', why are you so interested in posting legal advice here, Karl?

This isn't a personal question, but one that's actually aimed at the wealth of lawyers, financial advisors, mortgage advisors, accountants, trade union officials, etc. [anonymous and otherwise] that comprise a good bulk of the population of MSE.

Is it a pro bono thing? Self-promotion [I don't actually see the harm in that, provided it stays within the limits of MSE R&Rs]? Genuine kindness?

As a reasonable human being, I too like to help wherever I can [and find these forums both useful and entertaining], but there's no way I'd whip out my law books and do genuine research for a complete stranger .

[Last paragraph is awkwardly worded and may give the impression that I'm a legal professional; I am not].

K_Limpert

emilyteach1 wrote: »

Genuine question, asked out of interest, and completely devoid of any attention to be 'snarky', why are you so interested in posting legal advice here, Karl?

This isn't a personal question, but one that's actually aimed at the wealth of lawyers, financial advisors, mortgage advisors, accountants, trade union officials, etc. [anonymous and otherwise] that comprise a good bulk of the population of MSE.

Is it a pro bono thing? Self-promotion [I don't actually see the harm in that, provided it stays within the limits of MSE R&Rs]? Genuine kindness?

As a reasonable human being, I too like to help wherever I can [and find these forums both useful and entertaining], but there's no way I'd whip out my law books and do genuine research for a complete stranger .

[Last paragraph is awkwardly worded and may give the impression that I'm a legal professional; I am not].

Quite simply, because I worked as a trade union rep for nearly twenty years. I've since gone private/commercial in my activities, advising or representing small employers in HR/employment law issues - I'm often described as a poacher turned game-keeper.

For the businesses I now advise or represent, I will work hard to destroy the arguments put forward by the employees - that is what is needed for me to earn an income after all. And as someone that trained union reps on how to present a case, I know the tactics employees will use, and I can often find fault in the arguments.

None of that means I have abandoned my principals though: if an employee has a legitimate argument/case, I will advise a client of the same, and negotiate a fair settlement. However, if a rogue employee is taking the michael in a way that will harm a small business owner, I will defend the owner ruthlessly. If the law has flaws in it that allows me to advise a client successfully at the expense of an employee's perceived rights, I admit that will be unfortunate to the employee, but parliament is to blame for that, not an advisor that is simply working to the rules.

I was trained by employees - the unions they formed & were members of - and I very rarely represent them now as paying clients, but I can't abandon my principals of fair treatment in employment simply because I do paid work for the "other side". I still place an importance on (and adopt in my advice to my clients) fair treatment to employees, and I don't hide that fact from my clients.

My fees are not cheap (in fact I mentioned to an MSE member I've given advice to, albeit on another forum, that I would not be available to professionally assist them in their issues - although I doubt I would represent the employer either, as they don't have a case as far as I'm concerned, despite what MSE members think), but that doesn't stop my principals involving me wanting to provide helpful advice - more than a simple "yes" reply to a post - to employees that are being exploited. And as I can earn a fair amount for a few paid hours work a week, I find no reason not to spend some time commenting on forums - this is certainly easier than any voluntary work I've done in the past, as with forums I can choose the timing of my contributions.

My clients will still be my first priority (subject of course to my family), but as in this case (an employee at a bank), as there is no direct conflict of interest, I would have been happy to contribute on MSE. Alas, the clique don't feel that would be appropriate.

So honestly Emily, your question might not have been personal, but my reasons/principals for wanting to help employees still are.

Oh, and as for getting out a law book, all of my desks are covered with them (various mice, keyboards, etc, squeezed in between), so it really is no effort to flick a page. For the most part though (as I am familiar with most of the subjects that people raise), I simply need to find a link to a piece of law or case law to qualify my comments (my own databases will allow to that in seconds), but just occasionally (if I feel they're worth it - and I think oliverp was, but no real effort needed on this occasion) I might actually do some research.


Karl Limpert

McKneff

Sunshine12 wrote: »

Bottom line is that the OP's asked if his employer should still pay him if he doesnt work his notice (at their request). The simple answer is yes.

We went round the houses a few times guys but this post is the most accurate,simple and correct one

K_Limpert

oliverp wrote: »

In regards to my holidays, I’ve got a PDF of my contract and it states ...

Hi Oliver,

It might be the way you posted the clauses, but I'm not convinced by that the clauses of your contract that it does protect the bank from holidays used.

As you think you're on about par with your entitlement, the issue doesn't really matter, but if you were concerned, I would be happy to look at the whole contract (as far as your pdf contract actually contributes to this anyway - an employment contract is made up by more than one document); please feel free to send me a PM in this respect. In honesty, I don't pay much regard to any single clause, as there is often something elsewhere in the contract that can help for which you might not know what to look for, so would often be missed, or at least not referred to when quoted on a forum.

Given that holidays probably don't matter much in this case though, hopefully you now have the knowledge & confidence to challenge your managers if they try to terminate your employment without notice or pay in lieu - with something more than "I was told on MSE you can't do this".


Kind regards,


Karl Limpert

K_Limpert

McKneff wrote: »

We went round the houses a few times guys but this post is the most accurate,simple and correct one

Indeed, just not really the most helpful one if the OP actually wants to defend their rights. And given the OP posted some background information, perhaps it's useful they now have some background information to qualify the response that "the simple answer is yes".


Edit: a trip round the houses on here is more helpful to the OP than a trip to an employment tribunal with no information or understanding behind their claim.


Karl Limpert

McKneff

Flipping 'eck Karl, i bet youre a loverly dad/grandad but you are a bit pedantic. But I like you......................:D
I suppose Id better point out my gender for the record lol.

Annie
:kisses3:

oliverp_2

Thanks Karl for your offer of having a look at the contract. In all honesty I really wouldn't want to challenge them if they did make a deduction from the final payment as that's only fair.

I did however have a look at the "employee handbook" which states if it's not possible to deduct owed holiday from your final salary payment, they may deduct it from your bank account (you have to a bank a/c with them to get paid).

Would be a very interesting situation to get the amount debited from the bank a/c as a result of an employee-employer issue.

Thanks all again, all I hope now is the let me go on garden leave!!

getmore4less

oliverp wrote: »

Thanks all for your replies including Karl Limpert, your advice with references IS helpful so thank you for that.

I’ve spoken with another manager (not my line manager) who has told me that if I go to another bank, I will be told to leave immediately, and if it’s any other company that’s where the discretion comes in.

In regards to my holidays, I’ve got a PDF of my contract and it states ...

No payment will be made or deducted from any final salary payments in respect of Bank or Public holiday entitlement not taken or taken in excess of entitlement. ....

That may not be OK if the normal holidays are below 5.6 weeks(28days) requireing bank holidays to make up the number.

Allthough I think banks are normaly generous with holidays so may not be an issue.

Don't forget as well as garden leave they also have the option to offer PILON so you could agree to leave earlier. Might even be contractual.

oliverp_2

Just to let you know I handed in my notice today and have been sent on 4 weeks paid garden leave.