Damp Readings HELP NEEDED

Sk8lly

Hi

2 Weeks ago my bunglaw was flooded by a leaking radiator. Our house in rented from a housing association and they are having to deal with all the buildings insurance work and our contents are covered by ourselves.

We are having real issues with the housing assoc as they have made us move back in to the house, but the moisture readings in the walls are 60-80% and on the floors 40-60%.

Can anyone help me and tell me if i am right in saying these readings are high and that the floor boards and walls need replaced??

Thanks and i hope i can get some advice.

keystone

They haven't dried out yet.

Cheers

David_Aldred

Hi,
Although you give % readings you have not indicated what the % value relates to. A hygrometer test to a solid floor where values of less than 75% relative humidity would be considered to be acceptably dry as defined by the British Standards Institute.

The rate of drying down to buildings is slow and once amoisture source is resolved then without forced drying the best rate of natural drying down to be hoped for should be approximately 25mm wall thickness per calender month.

Timber is considered at risk of decay if the moisture content within it is at or above 20-22% though it often requires a moisture content of around 28% to initiate germination of naturally occurring airborne decay spores.

Hope this helps, kindest regards, David Aldred Independent damp and timber surveyor

iamcornholio

Sorry to be blunt, but if you don't know how to interpret meter readings, then those quoted figures are meaningless to you. The wall readings alone are going to be skewed by salts in the plaster and natural surface condensation due to high humidity.

As to whether these readings are high, well you have had a flood haven't you, so of course readings will be higher than normal, but presumably you have been given advice on ventilating etc?

The floorboards "and walls" do not need to be replaced and will dry out. The property would not be deemed unfit to live in, and so the HA is perfectly entitled to move you back in

Sk8lly

Hi

Thanks to the first few people who replied. To the last comment, i do know a bit about the moisture context and readings but was looking for some further clarification.

The readings confirm that the moisture context within the plasterboard is 74% and is at risk of decay and the chip board flooring at 45% is at a similar risk.

The underlying issue is that i am severe asthmatic and damp can cause me problems hence why i need to be sure that the house is dry.

iamcornholio

Sk8lly wrote: »

The readings confirm that the moisture context within the plasterboard is 74% and is at risk of decay and the chip board flooring at 45% is at a similar risk.

No, they are not "at risk of decay" as the source of the moisture has been eliminated, and the material will be drying out now.

Presumably you have some sort of DIY meter and that is what the needle is pointing to? Throw it in the bin as it will cause you more stress than it is worth

The chipboard deck will need to be checked once dry to see if the boards start to debond due to the soaking, but otherwise there is nothing out of the ordinary, and if you ventilate properly, then your medical condition will not be affected

David_Aldred

Hi,
Whilst I take the point made by iamcornholio, we do not have a clear picture from what is described to date to conclude that a) the health of a person who suffers severe asthma will not suffer as a result of a flood and b) that there is no risk at all of decay and degradation during the drying down phase which could take many months if not a year to fully dry down once the moisture source is resolved.

Sk8lly sent me a private message saying the meter they were using was not a 'DIY meter' but a Protimeter as used by professional surveyors and a reading to wood with such a meter where results of 45% is obtained is considered to be wet and quite capable of decaying with the potential to incloude dry rot.

When water is allowed to saturate a property and any sub floor voids beneath it over a long period of time then that property may not have adequate background ventilation designed into it, sufficient to dry it down within a short period of time, i.e. say within eight weeks. If this is the case then and as a result timber can be exposed to excessive moisture during a prolonged period that in some cases may be over twelve months and hence quite capable of germinatiung a dry rot of which a person who has severe ashtma would be well advised to stay away from if their health is not to suffer.

In addition mould spores may flourish during the drying down phase and this may not be confined to readily seen surfaces but concealed voids such as the underside of floors / behind fitted units / appliances and it is the products of mould growth again which can be dangerous to a person suffering severe asthma.

In addition we do not know the history of the property and whether for instance there has been any previous foul water flooding and hence we do not know if there are other nasties that could flourish aggresively on wet soil such as Coliform bacteria etc.

What I am getting at here is persons who suffer severe ashtma such as sk8lly have a life threatening condition and are particularly vulnerable to the results of a flooded property both during the period of flooding and until that property is fully returned to its original condition which could be as long as a year or more in some cases.

In such circumstances such persons require special consideration above and beyond what a reasonably healthy individual may tolerate and under such circumstances when their lives are susceptable to the effects of floods we cannot and must not simply state that everything is fine and they have nothing to be concerned about when we have inadequate information to conclude such for these particularly vulnerable persons to whom the law is quite clear we owe a far greater duty of care. Kindest regards, David Aldred Independent damp and timber surveyor

iamcornholio

David_Aldred wrote: »

Hi,


In addition mould spores may flourish during the drying down phase and but concealed voids such as the underside of floors / behind fitted units

In addition we do not know the history of the property and whether for instance there has been any previous foul water flooding .

What I am getting at here is persons who suffer severe ashtma such as sk8lly have a life threatening condition and are particularly vulnerable to the results of a flooded property both during the period of flooding and until that property is fully returned to its original condition which could be as long as a year or more in some cases.

In such circumstances such persons require special consideration above and beyond what a reasonably healthy individual may tolerate and under such circumstances when their lives are susceptable to the effects of floods we cannot and must not simply state that everything is fine and they have nothing to be concerned about when we have inadequate information to conclude such for these particularly vulnerable persons to whom the law is quite clear we owe a far greater duty of care. Kindest regards, David Aldred Independent damp and timber surveyor

Your post is alarmist and lacks any objectivity in terms of the effects of a such a minor flood event - but it contains all the essential mights-do's and could-be's to make this sort of thing something which it is not

The leak is from a bungalow central heating system and thus very limited (50-75 litres?). Diffusion of the moisture into various parts of the structure will depend on the time until discovery and the force/depth of the flood water - but from what has been said (a radiator in a bungalow) moisture intake is going to be low.

If the OP has a chipboard floor as stated, then most of the water is going to go below the floor into the floor void - a ventilated floor void which is designed to accept water and dry it off naturally.

If the OP has some concrete floor arrangement then the water will hold on the surface for considerable time before soaking into it. Moisture creep up the walls will also be limited to the lower 300mm or so.

Moisture will evaporate into the air to increase local humidity, but no more than an typical balmy summer day or damp winter day. Ventilation deals with this

Humid air will cause some elevated surface condensation, but nothing extreme or out of the ordinary.

I can't think why you should bring up the chances of any previous foul water flooding as that is totally irrelevant and unlikely - but it does add some drama

The property is drying off and moisture is not stagnating and so the chances of mould spores germinating is very limited.

This kind of flood event is common. I deal weekly with Statutory Nuisance claims based on uninhabitable properties and people claiming that housing conditions affect their health. There is nothing in the OP's situation which would make this a Statutory Nuisance, and nothing to indicate that his will have a detrimental effect on their asthma condition. Ventilation is all that is needed.

I also see reports daily from claimants "surveyors" alleging poor, health affecting conditions. All contain similar alarmist statements and misinterpretation of facts to dress up a normal condition into one of seeming life and death, and it really makes me sick to see people frightened by alarmist one-sided comments.

Look at what has happened in context - a leak from a radiator not from the river Thames.

Open the windows, use a dehumidifier if need be, and stop worrying about " risk of decay" just because a Protimeter says so. DIY or professional meter the advice still stands - throw it in the bin if you can't interpret the readings correctly

David_Aldred

Hi,
1. The timber is wet at 45% and remains at risk of decay.
2. You do not know how long the leak has gone on for.
3. Persons on here commenting do not know the floor construction.
4. You do not know if mould is present within concealed voids.
5. You do not know if bacteria is present.
6. You do not know if fungal spores are present.
7. Reading the moisture content of wood is not rocket science - any value over 20-22% is above the threshold of decay and the OP is quite capable of looking on the internet or asking myself how to take appropriate readings and how to interpret them.
8. You do not know the extent of any salts that may have leached into the plaster during the drying down phase and if they have then salt contaminated plaster will not recover.
9. The products of mould growth, bacteria and dry rot spores are all well known to bring on asthma attacks.
10. This person suffers severe asthma, that is to say for them it is life threatening.
11. I would rather place the OP on notice of the worst case scenario risk from the little information they have provided to us than to tell them to throw away their damp meter and everything is fine and then they suffer a severe or fatal episode that could have been avoided should it be found that it was induced by the issues above.
12. The floor is not only at risk of decay it is also far too wet for the laying of moisture sensitive flooring - I don't think the OP would be too happy if they had just paid to have a wood strip floor finish laid on the assumption everything was now fine only to find it ruined by being in contact with the wet floor.

Yes everyone hopes it is a minor leak, that it was short term and has been fully resolved with no mould / spores / bacteria issues that could impact upon the OP with there severe asthma and that there will be no degradation to the building fabric - but we do not have the information before us to conclude such and hence in this particular case with a person who is particularly vulnerable to these issues they should be informed that a) the property is in some parts still unacceptably wet according to the readings they have taken and consequently at risk of decay / degradation, in addition to b) that their severe asthma places them in a high risk category for those susceptable to the products of mould growth / bacteria / fungal decay spores that may or may not be present following flooding of their property.

Kindest regards, Dave

Sk8lly

David

Thanks for your comments and all the advice you have given. iam i also take your comments on board but just to make you aware the system is an old water system and is a constant flow system so just keeps pouring water out until it could be stopped, The dehumdifier while here which stopped last Saturday removed 80 litres of water from the livingroom alone, I know this figure to be correct as i emptied the buckets myself.

The housing association now have a 2nd company coming on Thursday afternoon to do another independent inspection and i will let you know the outcome.

Sk8lly

Hi Folks

Well 2nd company have come out today and confirmed the property needs dried out. They are trying to find us another house to live in while they dry the house and replace the floor.

Unfortunately this was too late to save me falling through the bathroom floor at lunch time today though so looks like this saga is going to drag on.