Damp, Timber and Wall Ties Surveys

Mahinda

Hi all,

First post from a long-time admirer of these forums. I _think_ this is the right place for it.

Basically, I'm buying my first house, and the homebuyer's survey has come back with these points (amongst others):

1. Dampness was found to some areas of the ground floor walls. Dampness is likely to areas concealed by dry lining and fitted lined kitchen units.

2. Dampness was found to the kitchen ceiling.

3. The age of the property means that sub-floor timbers may be affected by rot. Thie is despite the sub-floor ventilation appearing to be adequate. An inspection of the floor void is recommended.

4. There is no evidence of a damp proof course.

5. There are signs that the building is affected by corrosion of the ties normally built into the wall cavities.

The surveyor has recommended damp, timber and wall tie surveys.

A complicating factor is that most of the house has laminate wood flooring, which would probably require the vendor's assistance to lift. This isn't something I'd like to go into without good reason. The bathroom, which is over the kitchen (so could be the cause of dampness to the kitchen ceiling), has a lino floor, as has the kitchen.

As there is no specific evidence of timber decay, plus the extensive laminate flooring, I'm wondering whether it's there as a standard line as the house was built around 1930 (and I've read that houses of that era are more likely to have been built using lower-quality timber). The surveyor also comments that there's "adequate ventilation" to the underfloor area.

Friends have told me to just ignore the damp stuff, as "they always say that in Manchester." The house has been empty for a few months, too, but it certainly doesn't feel damp, if you see what I mean.

I've been quoted around £250 for the damp and timber surveys, but they wouldn't be lifting any laminate flooring so it wouldn't be complete.

I've not had any quotes for the wall ties. I also have no idea how much I would expect to pay should the whole lot need replacing.

Can anyone recommend decent (and reasonably-priced) surveyors who operate in the Manchester area?

Cheers,

Mahinda

Mahinda

Oh, and also, has anyone had any experience with the following firms? I've not found anything on the forums about them:

• PLS Remedial Services (quoting £94 for the lot, which seems dodgily cheap)

• DampAid UK (£180+VAT for damp and timber)

• UK Damp and Decay (£250 for damp and timber)

• ER Surveys (£225+VAT for damp and timber)

thedello

This kind of thing is always difficult.

The big problem is that most old houses require some remedial work, but you have to pay for the surveys to see exactly what needs doing.

Then, if the seller does not reduce the price accordingly you can loose out as you have paid for the surveys.

I have pulled out of a couple and lost the survey money, but it is sometimes better to cut your losses!

David_Aldred

Hi Mahinda,
As your friends say you can choose to 'ignore the damp stuff' as they put it but this will be entirely at your own risk should you proceed with the purchase and later discover major works are required and you suffer a loss as a result.

Firstly a couple of points:
1. The natural rate of depletion of any protective coating such as galvanising present to original ferous wall ties of a 1930's house will have expired such that the ties are highly likely to be corroded to a point that in accordance with the Building Research Establishment (BRE) digest the inserting of new ties should be considered.

2. Many houses in your area used black ash mortar from coal slag, high in sulphates that is known to accelerate wall tie corrosion.

3. If the original wall ties are of large gauge wire / plate type then they may well need to be isolated / removed from the wall as their cross sectional area is such that as they expand the mortar bed being weak in tension will crack causing structural problems. Addressing such original ties his is not a two minute job as it requires getting at the original ties and if done externally will involve suitable access such as scaffolding and once works are finished the debrisa that fell into the cavity as a result of such work will need clearing out - if the cavity is insulated this can obviously make the wall tie work more costly to deal with.

4. You can see by the above that costs could be considerable and need to be allowed for in order to protect yourself from suffering a loss.

5. Laminate floors are a surveyors nightmare. Whilst they may have just been laid to give a pleasant floor finish they also tend to reduce evaporation up through the suspended timber floor increasing the moisture content of the structural wooden floor beneath where sub floor conditions are poor. Such floors may also have been laid to chide a decaying / wood boring insect damaged floor and if the decay is dry rot then this could be very expensive indeed to address.

6. Whilst the number of sub floor vents may comply with Building Regulation recommendations this may still be inadeqaute if sub floor conditions are poor. The moisture content of the structural floor needs to be sampled and preferably at least some inspection traps cut to see the condition of the sub floor timbers. This is especially true if dampness is noted to walls as the timber floors of 1930's houses are likley to be built directly into the walls. If the vendor is not prepared to provide access then budget for the worst case scenario until proved otherwise or if you are prepared to take the risk of budgeting for less than this then this is your choice.

7. Options for your damp / timber / wall tie surveys are you either have a contractor look at these things for you knowing that they sell these things or you have an independent specialist surveyor look usally in more detail for an unbiased inspection. You pays your money and you takes your choice - contractors fees to inspect may be free or minimal because they can loose the real cost of their visits within the work they secure from such visits, or for an independent, the surveys are charged for because they are solely specialist surveyors in these subjects and this is the only way they can exist to provide such an unbiased qualified inspection service.

8. I know from my own experience costs to inspect from a true independent are likely to start from around £50 depending on what you are asking them to look and how far they have to travel. An internet trawl through google etc will reveal a list of contractors and alternative true independents depending uypon what you want to opt for and both should be able to provide provisional budget costings sufficient for your purchase negotiations.

Hope this helps, David Aldred Independent damp and timber surveyor

Dry_Rot

Hi,

You need a damp and timber specialist so I recommend a trip to the Property Care Association web site http://www.property-care.org/

The PCA have contractor members and independent ones too and there is a handy 'find a member' widget on the front of the home page. I know of several reputable PCA members in Manchester.

Dry Rot

Mahinda

Thanks, esp. to David, for taking the time to write such an informative reply.

A friend has recommended "Atlas Survey and Build Services", who replaced his wall ties, and happen to be just around the corner from my workplace. They're on the PCA website and seem pretty reasonable too.

Having parked outside and looked at the side of the house the other day (it's on a corner plot), it's clear that the brickwork isn't the most even -- the whole side is painted white, which isn't exactly flattering. There are a couple of bricked-up windows and a door, which do make it seem rather messy.

I must admit that, if I was to complete on the house, one of the things on my hitlist would be to get rid of the 'orrible laminate flooring. Unfortunately, that's not something I can do just yet.

It's very difficult to treat losing up to £1000 (on surveys, mostly) as "one of those things" when pulling out of a house deal...while I know that it's under 1% of the purchase price and therefore not worth gambling, it's still £1000! I've decided to set a £5k limit on "foreseen" repairs -- if the surveys come back with more than that, and the vendor won't bargain, I'll pull out.

Thanks.