Agency and Landlord Deny Receiving Notice...

mooks

Thank you yet again...

The landlord/agency lines are getting blurred at the moment - as the agency seemed to be the key 'antagonist' in this matter - the agency was first pursuing me for proof of my redundancy so I could invoke the break clause, and then regarding the notice letter issue. I wouldn't say the agency was acting on the landlord's instruction as such, but they have been confusing things by leading me down a route and then saying I have to talk to the landlord. I want consistency... I suppose the easiest thing is just to continue copying both of them in on correspondence!

I suppose the next question should be on how realistic a chance I have of winning back my deposit through small claims. I appreciate I may not win all of it back, but it's better than just surrendering it now to the landlord!

From my perspective, in my favour I can demonstrate that I've been thorough, detailed and professional throughout this whole process, and have a stack of letters and e-mails that show I've been active throughout my tenancy and after it to make sure I'm following due process. The landlord and agency on the other hand have failed to answer/return phonecalls, haven't called back when they say they will, ignore e-mails or are slow to respond, and ignore requests for information (such as my AST and DPS details).

The only thing against me in fact, is that I can't find the damned receipt for the recorded delivery on my notice letter.

sequence

Why you show them anything to invoke the break clause ? You can invoke the break clause for any reason, unless it says other wise in the contract ?

clutton_2

""I suppose the easiest thing is just to continue copying both of them in on correspondence!""

absolutely - they are trying to confuse you and befuddle you with nonsense... dont let them run rings round you ....

i utterly agree with sequence.. you DONT have to tell a LL why you want to move - if there is a break clause.. then use it... they are trying to fob you off

mooks

You're absolutely right - I just checked the Tenancy Agreement and it says nothing in there about my having to evidence the fact that I'm invoking the break clause - I just have to serve notice. The landlord appeared to be questioning my redundancy letter too when I spoke to him - he seemed to skirt around the issue but said it was 'odd' that the letter was dated November 2009 - well it's not like I wanted to move away from London at the time - and I was actively looking for work after my redundancy. Is he suggesting I've fabricated my redundancy?

I've just checked the agent's website and the flat is listed on there as being available, as it has been since the time I served notice. It seems odd to me that they would be marketing a property that for all intents and purposes they claim not to have received notice on. The issue that strikes me now is that if I'm still regarded as the tenant of the property, they have a duty to advise me that they're arranging viewings on the property, but they haven't. Either they're in breach of contract by not giving me notice that they'll be visiting the property, or they're not actually making any attempts to market the property - something I believe they had to do in order to minimise loss?

You live and learn - foolishly I tend to expect the same level of courtesy in return that I display towards others. What a mug...

tbs624

mooks wrote: »

I've just checked the agent's website and the flat is listed on there as being available, as it has been since the time I served notice. It seems odd to me that they would be marketing a property that for all intents and purposes they claim not to have received notice on.

Can you save the webpage/do a screendump to add to your stash of evidence?

mooks wrote: »

The issue that strikes me now is that if I'm still regarded as the tenant of the property, they have a duty to advise me that they're arranging viewings on the property, but they haven't. Either they're in breach of contract by not giving me notice that they'll be visiting the property, or they're not actually making any attempts to market the property - something I believe they had to do in order to minimise loss?

Can you get a friend to make an enquiry for similar properties and see what the LA offers them? You could also state in writing which times and dates you are happy to conduct viewings - obviously the more flexible you can be the more in your favour it is.

mooks wrote: »

You live and learn - foolishly I tend to expect the same level of courtesy in return that I display towards others. What a mug...

Yep, it's painful isn't it? Not only do LAs not have to have any set training, qualifications or expertise to be able to set themselves up in business, many of those who choose to do so do not even have a modicum of common courtesy towards those who fund their living.

Don't let the barstewards grind you down.....;)

gauly

Can't you just find the receipt? For £2500 it would be worth spending dozens of hours looking for it!

clutton_2

would royal mail produce a duplicate ?

mooks

tbs624 wrote: »

Can you save the webpage/do a screendump to add to your stash of evidence?

Done and done!

tbs624 wrote: »

Yep, it's painful isn't it? Not only do LAs not have to have any set training, qualifications or expertise to be able to set themselves up in business, many of those who choose to do so do not even have a modicum of common courtesy towards those who fund their living.

The worst thing is dealing with the people at their head office who clearly have no legal training or experience, and who think they can bully you with threats, rather than sound legal knowledge.

gauly wrote: »

Can't you just find the receipt? For £2500 it would be worth spending dozens of hours looking for it!

Believe me I'm trying!

clutton wrote: »

would royal mail produce a duplicate ?

I did consider this and discussed it with a friend who has a little knowledge of Royal Mail - basically there's nothing to link me to the recorded delivery receipt. The postage was paid for in cash, and while I was more than likely the only person who sent a letter via recorded delivery to the agent on that day, it's inadmissible as evidence as I can't prove that person was me - which kind of highlights the pitfalls in requiring that people send their notice via recorded delivery. If ever I rent again I'll be delivering it by hand an getting a blooming receipt when I drop it off!

princeofpounds

ARRRGGGGHHH!

This sort of thing makes me so angry.

It's actually a very simple situation legally - they are trying it on. The problem is that they are hoping you won't stand your ground and deal with the hassle.

This may be coming from either the A or the LL, but the LL is the only person you HAVE to deal with. He is responsible for everything - the law is that the agents just represent him and act on his behalf, but you have no legal relationship with them. So everything you do should be to put the heat on the LL.

Right, as for the notice period and providing proof... There is never any specific burden of proof on a tenant. If this comes to court, the judge will decide on the balance of probabilities as this is a civil case, not the beyond reasonable doubt standard for criminal cases. If you can prove your redundancy notice, documents detailing your move, a copy of the letter you sent (even if it's just printed out again), any email correspondance you have that might even hint that you entered into discussions about leaving around the time you should be giving notice, evidence of them marketing the property... a judge would think it pretty likely such a person would have given notice, and tell the landlord where to go. Drop any discussion about proof, unless you find that receipt, it's a red herring.

Now, they can get money from you two ways. One is taking you right to court. If they do this, just go and defend yourself and you will win. But I think more specifically they are talking about taking your deposit. They could then take you to court for the remaining share. I suspect threats of court are baseless on their side, but they might go as far as to pretend to lodge an application.

PLEASE confirm have you contacted the scheme to ensure your deposit really is protected? If it is, just raise a dispute with them and go through the normal procedure. Their arbitration will decide. The landlord may refuse arbitration, in which case it's off to court you go.

olly300

mooks wrote: »

I did consider this and discussed it with a friend who has a little knowledge of Royal Mail - basically there's nothing to link me to the recorded delivery receipt. The postage was paid for in cash, and while I was more than likely the only person who sent a letter via recorded delivery to the agent on that day, it's inadmissible as evidence as I can't prove that person was me - which kind of highlights the pitfalls in requiring that people send their notice via recorded delivery. If ever I rent again I'll be delivering it by hand an getting a blooming receipt when I drop it off!

Find the damn receipt.

It's not inadmissible as evidence as you link it to the letter you sent i.e staple it to it.

Go to the storage place and look through every box. You should have done it this weekend.

Seriously having been in front of a judge once and having used regulators just having the receipt really helps your case.

Regardless of whether the other party tries to deny having received the letter having a receipt helps you on the balance of probabilities. People and companies who are wise to this don't even bother to try it on if you have sent all your posted letters recorded or special delivery, and also informed them in another way.

The only thing you have learnt from this is not to put letters, proof of paying bills and other records from the last property you lived in storage. Also don't do this for at least the last 2 employers you have worked for. Yes I know it's hassle having to take paperwork around with you when you are renting but unfortunately you have learnt the hard way you need to do this.