Skimlinks trial on MSE forums

thelawnet

Snooze wrote: »

He is entitled to make cash however he chooses - it is HIS site. Once again, if users don't like the usage T&Cs then they know where the door is.

Indeed it is HIS site. Not yours.

And at the moment it says he is having a 'one month trial' and is asking for feedback.

Not a permanent change to the usage t&cs at this point.

And if you don't like the way this thread has been done, then you know where the door is.

skoff

The biggest issue seems to be for people who use cash-back sites to generate income.
Perhaps instead of attacking the MSE/skimlink proposals it would make sense for these people to rethink their methods. Some have already indicated they use a separate browser for cash-back purposes; isn't that what you could all be doing?
After all, however this trial pans out, there will be other sites out there who are less scrupulous about informing the user of any similar scheme.
In short, if you are relying on this (Cash-back) to make money perhaps you should treat it as an activity separate from other web use. Perhaps that should be standard advice for people learning about it?
Sorry if I've not made myself clear - I am honestly not attacking anyone, just offering a suggestion.
Oh, and personally I don't have a problem with the skimlinks deal.

Minerva69

skoff wrote: »

The biggest issue seems to be for people who use cash-back sites to generate income.

I use cashback sites and the Skimlinks software does sound like it will affect that. I'm not too technically-minded but to me it also sounds like Skimlinks will be putting cookies on people's computers without their knowledge when a link is clicked, that can't be a good thing surely? Can someone confirm this? If this is the case then I won't be clicking on any links from MSE anymore - if others follow suit then won't MSE be losing revenue rather than creating it? I also think this trial should be mentioned in the weekly email - not everyone comes onto the site feedback board. The weekly email always includes non-affiliate links "for transparency" - to me this Skimlinks thing doesn't seem very transparent.

meher

Remotely wrote: »

Question

Might it be a good idea to have a checkbox in the forum footer like:-

Unticking it would stop the Skimlinks javascript from being used - until the box it re-checked by the user or cookies are wiped

Registered users could have a permanent option in their forum options so they wouldn't have to worry about it re-checking if they use a new browser or wipe cookies

I still haven't understood the cashback cookie interfering dynamics but ^ this solution sounds sensible. The default setting however needn't be for cashback sites, instead favoring mse, imo, because people like me who don't understand the nitty gritty would like it kept as elementary as possible. Speaking for myself, when I find post scripts, postludes or boxes to tick and untick, I run away from it altogether thinking something shady going on, and go on to open a new broswer, do hassle free shopping.

edgex

TurkishDelight wrote: »

Well it means that you have two referral cookies in your system.

One from skimlinks, and one from quidco.

Previously you'd be alright having a look at the product through the link that someone had provided on here and then logging into quidco and finding it through theirs, as the MSE link was not associated with any paying network.

Now though the cookies from MSE will be placed when you click through from here to have a look, and as it appears to be a normal link there is no way to tell if I hadn't read this thread.

The retailer won't pay out twice so it's more than likely they will pay whoever got there first (MSE).

I don't mind this so much, as I use seperate browsers, and will still use it to buy from Amazon (because there is no cashback available to me anyway, and someone might as well benefit) but I just feel a warning would have been appropriate for those users who don't use two browsers and have seen MSE as a safe place links wise.

Minerva69 wrote: »

I use cashback sites and the Skimlinks software does sound like it will affect that. I'm not too technically-minded but to me it also sounds like Skimlinks will be putting cookies on people's computers without their knowledge when a link is clicked, that can't be a good thing surely? Can someone confirm this? If this is the case then I won't be clicking on any links from MSE anymore - if others follow suit then won't MSE be losing revenue rather than creating it? I also think this trial should be mentioned in the weekly email - not everyone comes onto the site feedback board. The weekly email always includes non-affiliate links "for transparency" - to me this Skimlinks thing doesn't seem very transparent.

http://skimlinks.com/privacy

Skimlinks technology
Once you are accepted to use Skimlinks, and have added the Skimlinks code to your site template, it will download a javascript file to your user’s computer when they view one of your webpages. This javascript file will transfer to Skimbit each outbound URL that a user clicks for processing. Skimlinks technology assesses these URLs, and where appropriate, turns the link into an affiliate link. Skimbit stores the URLs that are clicked, and information about the sale or acquisition through the respective affiliate network. However, no user’s personally identifiable information is stored by Skimbit, and all data stored is anonymised or aggregated.



http://skimlinks.com/terms

4.1 The Publisher is entitled to Commissions for Referrals, where the Publisher's website has been the most recent referrer to a Merchant's website. The Publisher is entitled to Commissions for Sales, where the Sales are made during the cookie life-time eligible for Referral income, as defined by individual Merchants.

oakhouse13

As part of the trial it would be useful to know what moneysavingexpert is invoicing Skimlinks for.

It's a fair question because the users create the content in the forum. It's good business practice to allow them some say in how it is monetised.

Skimlinks is an affiliate for Amazon and eBay both of which run their own affiliate programs in-house, and a sub-affiliate so to speak for the affiliate networks like Commission Junction, Affiliate Window, Tradedoubler etc (it is one of these networks that went bust recently that caused payout problems with some Quidco cashback, they run the tracking between advertisers and affiliates, and generally take a 30% cut on sales)

On the question of cashback, clicking shopping links in the guides actually generates a payment for clicks not a share of sales commission, according to the blurb at the bottom of the guides:

"* Using these links helps the site stay ad-free and free to use, as they’re ‘affiliated links’ which invisibly take you via commercial price comparison services like Moneysupermarket or Find, which then pay this site per click."

Is MSE invoicing Skimlinks for clicks from forum posts or is the deal a share of sales commission? If it is clicks, and the price MSE is charging Skimlinks is more per click than it charges Moneysupermarket or Find for clicks from guides, will Skimlinks take over these links too?

Skimlinks would need a credit card license from the OFT and be authorised to promote financial services by the FSA to do business on the money boards in my view. I don't see how it will be because the content that it monetises is generally not in Skimlinks' control. It is either editorial or user generated.

Skimlinks is quoted in an article I read as saying: "we don’t work with any financial merchants or any financial publishers."

This is big business. A Google site search of MSE generates 390,000 results on this website for the search term eBay and 365,000 for the search term Amazon. Not all those will be links but for Skimlinks, adding one line of code to this site probably added over night quarter of a million referral links.

Obviously good for this site too, which is the objective.

Former_MSE_Dan

Old_Wrinkly wrote: »

Found this on a review site :
Please can someone at MSE confirm or refute the accuracy of this - as it implies the affiliates are chosen by the publisher (i.e. MSE) rather than by Skimlinks themselves - which was implied by earlier MSE statements.

If it really is true that MSE has no active control over the affiliates, then presumably MSE could not exercise any control over a link in a non 'Pure Money' board to a financial product.

Hi Old Wrinkly,

We are not choosing the retailers, we've just set up to use the ones that Skimlinks has relationships with.

Also, as made clear earlier, we do not choose what it posted by you guys anyway, and nor would we ever want to.

KingL wrote: »

I notice that any navigation within the forum (opening a thread, going back to the forum root, opening a few forum etc, etc) goes via google analytics. Is that skimlinks related or just part of the existing MSE infrastructure?

Of course, opening new threads is already going through api.ak.facebook and static.ak.fbcdn.net ....

so, is skimlinks just skimming user posted links as described or site navigation links, too ?

I think this has already been answered, but Google analytics and the facebook links have been part of the site structure for a while.

Former_MSE_Dan

Hi folks,

Thanks for all the feedback so far, it's been great and we've read every bit (even if we can't always respond).

If we go ahead after the trial, we will be trying to address as many of your questions (eg, which retailers does skimlinks have relationships with) in the messaging of how this works, which would be added to our How the site is financed? guide - linked to from every page.

Specifically on the cashback issue, as far as we understand, the retailers who pay cashback base it on the LAST link you clicked through, so if you go via eg, Quidco, then it should be OK.

However, we are really keen to try and get info from anyone who has been affected by this (or the discount vouchers problem mentioned above) - at the moment a lot of this is speculation, which is great for raising it onto our radar, but further evidence about whether cashback has or hasn't tracked etc since we implemented this would be brilliant.

We are also going to contact the big cashback sites to see how they think this will or won't affect they way they work.

Thanks again,

Dan

Numpty_Monkey

Are you going to be talking to the best CashBack sites aswell as just the alledged biggest,(I don't trust quidco )
TopCashBack, FatCheese, GetPoundsBack, If I make a purchace it will go through one of these.

If MSE gets a abit from me for clicking a link I've no problem:T:j
as long as I get my CB:D

Horlock

Dear MSE

I'm definately not happy by this.

The reasons can be read in the following threads
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2647255
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/35513107#Comment_35513107

Basically I've just wrongly accused a fellow money saver of disguising affiliate links - when in fact it is MSE who is disguising the links.

To me this is DISGRACEFUL.

If MSE were open and honest about them as they used to be about affiliate links then I would be happy. The truth is the link is being disguised!

A simple work around would be everywhere a person puts a link replace the link by two links, the first the affiliate the second the original link - but make the first link clear (eg with the site's original method of astericks).

That way people can happily chose the MSE link (I always have in the past) or the other (if they prefer).

If skimlinks must be used exactly as is - simply run a script after skimlinks which replaces skimlinks links with a choice.

VERY POOR FORM

DON'T TRY AND CON MONEY OUT OF MONEYSAVERS - IT IS CONTRARY TO THE ORIGINAL IDEAS OF THIS WEBSITE